great thread... i've been at crossroads for a month now deciding which tuner to go with and this is the exact reason i haven't pulled the trigger... every tuner will sell you something different, and it just feels like you're running around in circles and the more you talk to, the more you feel separated from the "truth".. so i've decided that until i'm absolutely sure which way to go, to just enjoy my ride for what it currently is..

 

Craig,

First of all, is good to hear from you as you have always brought a unique and insightful perspective to this forum. I'm currently going through the process of tuning my car with a relatively new tuner on this forum. Will see how it turns out. You are correct as to why we feel these "tuner loyalties". I will add that some of it has to do with the expense that we have committed to our builds or tunes, and switching to another tuner is not affordable so we are stuck.
If we conceal the poor service or bad experiences we have with vendors or tuners are we enabling them and thus becoming part of the problem?
Perhaps this forum should have a means to rate a tuner or vendor without going public about the particular issue, similar to a BBB, that can give potential customers an idea of who they are about to deal with.

 

Craig, well said.. I believe a major reason most people that have suffered bite the bullet and suck it up is because of protectign their own interests just in case if there is a need to go back to the same tuner for service or other reason. If the bridge was burnt, the tuner may come up with excuses to not touch the car as a way to punish.

Just recently, I had a really costly and unpleasant experience in upgrading my turbo kit. Whenever there was problem, I attempted to solve it with the vendor but I was always given the run around, check this, check that and it still would not work properly. In the process of this getting to the bottom of it, I have spent countless money, hours and stress trying my best to find out the problem. Later on, the vendor suggested my motor could have been damaged or lousy turbo install work and etc.. I did tried my best to sort it through with the vendor but at the end the vendor has basically told me to go away and not willing to take responsibility.

To make misfortune worse, the vendor decided to punish me for posting my experience on the forum, the vendor lowered the pricing for the same kit by about 2500 bucks and when I had potential buyer for my " used " kit in the for sale section, the vendor told my potential buyer that he will not cover warranty and the potential buyer will not receive support as well. That basically put me in a very bad spot and I would be stuck with it.

Now, the GOOD news is I have just delivered my car to another extremely respectable tuner in the porsche world. I am removing the existing kit and installing a brand new turbo kit on the car. At the same time, I have requested the tuner to inspect the existing turbos it self , the install work and perhaps pull a few dynos based on my existing set up.

I am sure if I start to name names, I may be bashed immediately, but I believe the dots will eventually be connected.

Ken

 

As with any purchase in life, caveat emptor. Do your homework. Don't believe everything people say/write, and this should apply to the words from tuners and owners. Collect as much info as you can and you can make a better decision.

Regarding the private grievances, well that is pretty weak data Craig. Let's face it...it is very easy to ***** about something you are not 100% satisfied with, and very difficult to satisfy a "Type A" person 100%.
My wife and her friends get together often and I once had the displeasure of overhearing a ***** session about husbands. Now these women have blessed lives and their husbands are great people, but you'd think not if you heard the crap spewed about. Take these one sided perspectives with a grain of salt. People love to sound like victims when they have someone to complain to.

Every story has two sides and you will not get the complete picture by hearing only one. "Poor customer paid his money and didn't get what he was thought he was getting." "Poor tuner had a customer who made 6 decision changes during the project, had expectations beyond reality and wanted everything done as cheaply as possible." Maybe they should add a "customers to avoid" section to the forums.

Also consider that these cars are fine from the factory. It took Porsche millions to make them powerful, reliable and easy to drive. Increase the performance beyond factory specs and the equation shifts, resulting in less reliability and driveability. A good tuner finds a good balance. I do not mean to talk down to anyone who understands this but it should be considered in this type of discussion.

 

Craig,

Very informative post. I've read through some of your posts and it seems that Proto worked on your car (at least some of it). Considering I'm leaning towards a proto tune and I've heard nothing but good thing about Todd, can you please pm me (or if I can pm you) to get your thoughts?

Btw, didn't your car have a custom tune/work done?

Edwin

 

I guarantee there are a load right now tempted to hit the keyboard and get some weight of their chest. I'm one of them!

And I bet vendors are sh1tin' themselves... you all know who you are... we're comin' to get you

 

LOL

 

look, just ship me 30 year old Jura and I'll tell you all the secrets I know about tuners (ain't much, but I can make it up)

 

I want to know who the vendor is....and are you talking THIS forum?
Email me all that has gone on.
Do not do it in open forum.

 

Tim,

There was a thread about a million pages long about kcphuah's problems.

 

I know!

 

Good points roadsterdoc.

 

Hey Craig,

Been to the street races lately? I remember the night you crashed your 996tt into another car at the street races years ago!

 

 

They are going to tell you what you want to hear.I think for the most part they do try and deliver, but at the end of the day your on your own.I am doing a little bit of a build my self right now, well its been 6 months and wont be done until March or 09....BUT I knew this going in.I did my research and talked to all of the tuners.The guy building my motor thinks it would be better to have some one else tune it, He told me thats not what he does and honestly I appreciated the truth for once.I know he is working with a tuner on this bored about the build and they are collaborating.What people forget is the owners part in all this.Some think just because you did a flash and Turbos with a EBC and they are good to go.What about taking the car to the dyno, checking the AF,checking knock, making sure your fuel system is good for your HP rating... ect...ect .The guys that run big boost on here with stock bottom ends and some 104 think they safe because the guy that did the tune said it should be OK are asking for big repair bills.


Craig I'm not trying to take away from your great post but sometimes the owner has just as much to do with it as the builder.I want to bring up a good point about a fellow member that just did a kit with a board sponsor, he couldn't get the car to work and is now taking it off. I think for the most part the kit he got was a good kit, but the installation of it was not right. I think its could have all been avoided by a simple fix.New guys before you do mods, talk to your tuner and ask questions on the board. Listen to some us that have been thru it. My last motor made 683 at the wheels for 2 months....now its a large piece of useless aluminum.
Bottom line is simply this, these cars are not cheap to do properly....the key word there was properly, the old saying is very fitting for this case" pay me now or pay me later"

Doc great reply.