IB4TL


These threads always end up in shambles.

 

Yeah the mods may as well close this one since it is now way off the original thread topic.

 

Back on topic...

Tuner Loyalties. Alot of people buy on relationships. Some buy on price only. I have talked to guys that spend $10,000s of dollars on their project cars with one tuner, but when it comes to buying say coilovers, shifter, clutch, they nickle and dime to death.

With saying that, when you choose your tuning/service partner to work on your vehicle, what are you main factors in your decision?

 

Perhaps a somewhat tenable solution to vendor/tuner/installer public bashing would be for the person initerested in certain mods to post his/her intentons. He/she could then solicit PM's from those of us willing to take the time to inform in either a positive or negative way. Said person could then distill the replys, run it through the BS filters and make an informed decision. This might eliminate degenerative threads like this.

 

just remember that moderators can view PM's. PM's are not really private. And many of the board sponsors may be mods or have mod powers. Probably an anonymous forum or via email is the best way.

 

I agree, this is a good idea.

As far as what I as a modder was looking for:

1. Reputation of the tuner, their history of support to the consumer, accessibility and ethical behavior.
1. Performance of said item, does it perform as advertised.
3. Price, who wants to get ripped off buying a $3600 exhaust that the tuner gets for $700 and is made in China?

 

I have one question- did Dan and Ken's installer ever communicate during the problem... it seems like they didn't - there are a few basic tests one can do in order to see if the car is working correctly. ( boost leak test, MAF test, installation of Greddy( disconnecting the greddy), pressure testing the WGS.... checking AFRs.... etc... )
this is not hard to do and if I can do it then any shop can as well...
markski

 

Maybe a Tuner sticky section where people can check out! People can post there experiences (good or bad). Maybe set up a rating system .

-Quality
-performance
-customer service
-ETC...

 

I like this idea.

 

I vote no on the rating system. Were you here when they had rep points on the forum? It was a really neat idea that turned into a big lame mess because a few people would donate or deduct points indiscriminately. In a short period of time the points had no validity. There is a lot of potential for abuse of such a system, especially in this pro-tuner environment. Or wait, is this an anti-tuner environment? I can't even tell anymore...Thanks a lot Craig!

 

You hit the nail on the head Dan.

Mike

 

Interesting question Dan-

I 'segment' my purchases into 'projects'. Tires and wheels, suspension, audio- all fall into defined categories and all under the umbrella of 'commodity' ... for these it is almost exclusively price. A set of HRE C20s from you or a JIC Cross suspension is the same no matter who sells it. Once it arrives I can inspect it and deal with any issues- the point is that there are no 'intangibles' in evaluating those items- at least for me.

Then we turn to the 'squishy' stuff- drivetrain mods; flashes, turbos, wastegates, etc. There my decision is driven almost exclusively on issues that aren't listed on a website product description: How the programming deals with engine protection (timing, AFR, boost), tuner reputation, tuner knowldege on how his one, two or three items will fit with my other mods; quality of communications, etc. It was important for me to choose ONE company, for ALL my future mods. I was not going to be playing the 'blame game' if I could help it...price was almost not a factor on my list of priorities.

I actually think one of the risks you and other marketers face is the 'productization' of extensive mods.... there CAN be more than meets the eye, customers can be stupid, cars might not be running well to begin, installers are NOT tuners... when you are marketing products with thinner margins, and making up for it with broad advertising, the risk of getting into a bad situation increase. Managing expectations and making sure the customer is buying what he needs is hard via a website- not impossible, but more challenging.

Finally, you mention "tuner/service partner"... I don't have one. I bought a few UMW items, but I do intalls and service. Who is the 'tuner' in this case? Is it UMW?

I actually have a interesting parallel- building a house. Some people build it themselves, some hire a contractor, some self contract- others do the building but the owner tells the workers what to do... In the horror stories I have read, it is as if the contractor- either the tuner or the owner acting as a contractor- didn't get all the pieces working correctly.

In a recent case, an owner was acting as his own contractor and really didn't know how to get the subs working correctly, blaming one sub or another- almost as if one of the subs should have taken overall responsibility for the end result of other sub's work.... like the analogy?... there can only be ONE boss and only ONE person ultimately responsible for putting the pieces together. If you don't know how to build a house, you really shouldn't be acting as the general contractor.

My 3 cents

A

 

that is actually a really good analogy.

Markski - yes I did.

 

Lets put things in perspective.....EVERYBODY is happy with their tuner until **** happens...thats when you Know who stands by thier product & cares about the customer. not just to get the sale.

We should really do our homework when picking a tuner, I've had my shares of down falls.. (with previous builds)

 

I have bought from many tuner/suppliers; Mostly with good luck

1)I/A; knowledgable but can be high priced and arrogant about it.

2)Sharkey; bends over backwards to make it right, truly a treasure in
our industry

3)EVOMS; good knowledge, innovative marketing, mostly good products,
big personnel changes recently along with new software and it will be interesting to see how/if he continues to prosper.

4)Vivid Racing; I had my issues with Dan and their customer service, but
he rectified it quickly AFTER things got heated on the phone (shouldnt have to go that far before being "taken care of")

5)UMW; Obviously knowledgeable and great products; too much of a perfectionist
perhaps (ultimately conservative) and is always VERY CONCERNED about his minions
saying anything good about anyone else. He has very good customer service habits which also go a long way in this industry.

6) Protomotive; trustworthy, expensive, and also has THE MOST TUNING knowledge
(there are other guys currently "tweaking a few parameters" of a Program and calling themselves programmer/tuners) TODD has forgotten more about tuning than the combined knowledge of these new guys. Some of Protomotive's work could/should
be prettier but regardless, they stand behind there product. He built and tuned VR
Alex's car (212 mph in TX Mile), Markski's Car, Divexxtremes Car, and the recent
1000+ RWHP, RobMD99's car. Some of the cool stuff he has done using GT3RS cams/heads, on 996TT's which requires fabbing new pick-up points etc is way above
most tuners comprehension. (He is also where everyone goes when they are stumped)
You could trust your newborn to Todd and Cynthia and that is rare in thus
industry!
Switzer Performance:
Obviously an innovator with great knowledge, I would have to vote him
tuner of the year for what he accomplished in a SHORT TIME period with
David's 997TT; full weight 9 second 997TT == HOLY **** MAN!!!
If you have seen Switzer's fab work, it is second to NO ONE.
(It may not be known that Protomotive was some of the brains behind this Switzer build)

The above are only my opinions and you know how much opinions are worth.
Neil Orton: Orton Performance; Has owed me over $5,000 for more than
2 years...so no, I would not currently recommend him

Marty