Here is an overdue summary of the recent engine rebuild that was done to my car. Thanks to all of you that gave me ideas/tips to deal with PCNA and the dealer to get this covered under warranty!

ISSUE
I started to notice high oil consumption (~400-500 per quart). I took it to the dealer and started oil consumption test which basically meant bring it back to dealer for them to add oil and track mileage/consumption. After 3 months of test dealer ran leakdown test and compression test but all figures looked fine so he submitted claim to PCNA for engine teardown for further diagnose. PCNA denied claim and asked for an additional 3 months of testing! Dealer agreed this was unreasonable but asked me to do ONE more month of testing. They put new oil, new sparkplugs and after I did that and went back to dealer. Consumption was still high and he convinced PCNA to authorize teardown.

DIAGNOSE
They found some minor scoring on the cam housing (see pic 1) but didnt think this was the main issue. Their main conclusion is that since my car is an early 01 build, it has the "old style pistons" which have no relief holds. They showed me thath the pistons only had one pair of little holes and that the new ones have 2 pairs of little holes (relief holes). Dealer indicated Porsche changed the piston style sometime in 01 and therefore this change would fix my car. My sense is that they werent 100% sure but PCNA accepted the diagnose they proceeded to rebuild the engine with new camshafts, cylinders, cylinder heads (from what I understand this is a top end rebuild).

COST/PARTS
Since repair was CPO I dont have an official invoice but dealer gave me some of the prices for the parts "6 cylinder with PI 996-103-915-74 = $4649, "2 AS cylinder head" 996-104-001-76 = $6890, Camshaft $808, etc, etc....for a total of ~$13000 in parts. AND 6k in labor (3k to open/diagnose and 3k to put back together) for a grand total of ~$19,000.

CURRENT STATUS
Car is running fine (but it was also running fine before!) In the first 500 miles of conservative driving I have consumed 1/2qt which is still a lot but according to dealer it is normal to still see higher consumption during first 2000 miles of break-in period. Their suggested break-in was "first 500 miles at under 5k rpm and vary RPM as much as possible" They also asked me to bring car back next week so they can check for any leaks and other minor adjustments.

CONCLUSION
While painful to go through the process, overall, I am satisfied wth PCNA response. Yes, I wish they had put new engine instead but as everyone that has dealt with PCNA knows, you can demand they fix the problem but hard to tell them how to do it. I think other car manufacturers may have just moved me to a thicker oil and call it a day so all in all I am pleased and, fingers crossed, the car is fixed. I welcome any comments and question (please just dont tell me I should have fought for a new engine...I did and all I got was a $19k rebuild....)

QUESTIONS -
Finally a couple questions for the experts:
- Is is necessary to do an oil change at this point or should I just use it as normal (eg wait another 5000-7000 miles for an oil change)?
- Any other break-in tips?
Thanks - see pics below!

 

Most definitely change the oil. I'd do a used oil analysis, but that's me.

Good work

A

PS Keep track of oil consumption...if it remains the same you'll get a new engine! Their repair already under the CPO is proof that it was an 'actionable and covered defect', and therefore if it persists....

PPS Did they have you sign a stack of papers "to submit to Porsche for the CPO"?? This was your "official invoice"- at least for BMW it is. I will only sign those if I get a copy..they grumble but find it hard to argue with 'how can I sign something if I cannot retain a copy"?

 

I will most definitely keep tracking oil consumption. What i find troubling is that they say it will keep consuming oil for at least 2k miles (and they said maybe on rare cases, for up to 7k miles!) That;s like telling a patient with hear surgery that he will continue to have chest pains after the surgery but that that is normal...On paperwork, I didnt have to sign anything. They simply gave me the invoice listing all parts and no cost (2 pages). By the way, if I do the oil analysis I expect to see some metals in the read which should be normal, right?

 

I know there's a million threads on this, but doesn't Porsche say that 1qt every 1000 miles or so is acceptable? Meaning if you have 1/2qt at 500mi your pretty much within their specs?

 

I would say yes, then with repeated analyses you should see them taper down. If it stays high, the UOAs might be invaluable as evidence.

If your P dealer does your oil changes, get them to draw the sample and put that as a note on the invoice ('retain used oil sample for lab analysis').... a pile of those and a pile of UOAs will do better a year from now if you have issues than just the soft 'high oil consumption' complaints.

OTOH, if you ever sell the car, having clean UOAs would be a great item to reduce buyer fears over 'major engine work'.


Again, good work on getting action with 1qt per 500.

I am NOT saying the current use is too high...just to continue to monitor and collect as much data as possible should you need it. ttboost is right, 1/2 per 500 is within 'normal'.

A

 

the official figures from porsche are that max acceptable consumption for this engine is 1qt per 588 miles...so at 500miles per qt I was off spec. From multiple treads I have read the most common range seems to be 1000-2000 miles per qt but there are some outliers out there. Porsche will say that anything above 588 is normal.

 

yup. these cars use oil and they always have used oil. new motors will definitely use oil until the pistons + rings "seat" fully. this will happen faster with the new styled piston rings. 2K miles breakin is normal. so long as compression (leak-down) is OK then valvetrain is almost certainly OK and further, pistons are seated and it's fine. (its a closed system so if it's OK on leak-down then it's not leaking internally) if it's not showing up in leakdown tests then is't literally LEAKING out of the motor somewhere B/C it's the valvetrain and the piston rings would be the only source of "blowby" otherwise. if you've got oil-fed BB-turbos and they are running off of the same oil-reservoir as the engine, and those bearings are going out, then you would of course see that consumption as well, but from what has been shown so far, that wasn't up for consideration.

 

So what you are saying is that another possible cause for oil consumption was "bearings that are going out on the Turbos?" Are you saying that it is possible that I got an engine rebuild while all I needed was new turbos?

 

Muker,

I'm having a similar problem (high oil consumption) on my '02 X50 with 37k miles. You mentioned the official max consumption for our engines is 588 mi/quart. Can you site the reference, email me a copy(?) that states this is maximum allowable (or anyone else?)?

My dealer filed my oil consumption data and Porsche replied that approximately 1.0L/1000 km is NORMAL, not maximum. They also state that "if climate conditions are warm that that could cause higher rate of oil consumption"

I don't buy it as the car gets 475-520 miles per quart of M1 0W40 over 4 consumption measurements. You were successful in getting Porsche to do the right thing, mine is coming up on the end of the CPO (end of this month).

Any help is appreciated!!

xc17pilot@gmail.com

 

My car uses about 1 quart every 800 miles or so and my indy says that's totally fine as most of my trips are very short. It currently has just under 9000 total miles on it. For what it's worth.

 

Page 136 + 137 of the owners manual describes oil consumption.

The following is out of the Service Manual and sounds like the 1 liter per 1000km everyone is "quoting".

top of page

Engine lubrication

Type Dry sump lubrication with separate oil canister
Oil cooling Via oil−water heat exchanger on pressure side behind oil pump
Oil pressure at n=5000 rpm, T=90°C Approx. 6.5 bar
Oil pressure indicator Oil pressure indicator lamp plus instrument

Oil consumption Approx. 1.0 l/1000 km

 

this exact thing happened to my friend who has an 01 turbo. Dealer took it apart, found some light scoring...and did the top end rebuild. The car always used a lot of oil..but <JUST> within spec ~1000miles.

However, he car never did feel just right. It was flashed to .9 and then to 1.2 with a 600HP kit. Dealer did coils which seemed to cure the problem...until my buds engine developed a leaking head gasket - and then later blew up.

I would insist on a new engine. My buds 05 spec engine is AWESOME!

 

Thanks for the replies. I'd be ok if they did the top end rebuild under warranty, who wouldn't? Just don't know how to get Porsche to do it with their latest reply. Seeing that some have had it done with similar oil consumption issues gives me hope, but looking for technical source to state that this is excessive.

 

For that kind of money, why did't they just put a new engine and got it over with?

 

xc17pilot -
Here is the official manual from Porsche indicating that maximum consumption is 1lt/1000km which translates into 588 miles. Note they did play that card with me that this was normal but this document helped since they realized they were not going to be able to brush me off easily.

It is a tough balance but you have to have a firm stance while still being very polite. At the end the decision is up to PCNA (not the dealer) so your best bet is to do all you can to get the dealer on your side who is the one that will have to argue with PCNA. I did not have to do this myself but the next option is that the dealer gets you in touch with the PCNA regional rep.

Best of luck - given that you have the issue in your case is well documented, they should come through.