So basically what you are saying Todd is you raised the fuel pressure and basically rigged it all to run with a specific fuel.. That's just dangerous honestly, and is just a giant band-aid to the problem. Hell you could have rigged up a FMU and done it that way LOL! Tuners are not having no problem with running a larger injector and not having to run special fuels to do it right. Scott's car was a real high dollar build why not spend the extra money on a larger injector. If tuned right the gas mileage will be the same as well as the drivability. I don't see why you wouldn't just do that.

As far is Bobby's car goes NOBODY except you or Mark has seen a timeslip from the pass. I have a hard time believeing that a GT2 can do that with less power. I know a lot about drag racing, and I know that 3400lb car with driver is NOT going to run a 148mph with less than 800rwhp regardless how good the person can "drive" the car. My brothers car went a 147mph making 839rwhp, granted their was a 30+mph headwind that day it, but the car wieghs 3350-3400.

As far as badgering people, maybe you should talk to unymym3 because he loves to post in every EPL thread trying to show off something you did. We all know he called you about this.

Also as far as RC injectors go.. The 650cc injectors that I have and are sold by Vivid are rated at 62lb @ 43.5psi which is 2.97bar, so that realistically makes them a 70lb or so injector when rated at 3.8bar, which is why it's possible to make ~700rwhp at 100% duty cycle, but why would you do that when you can throw in a true drop in injector that can do that at 60% duty cycle or so. The only reason why I have them is because I didn't know about the injectors that were actually available. I was a little ignorant on that part and impatient.

This is no way an attack because I have a lot of respect for the work you've done in the past, but the times are changing. There isn't just one real tuner anymore.

 

powell LOL. appearntly you are bad at comprehension they were just checking to see limits on the 60lbs and to show that some peopel run out of inedctor way to early . they are not using the 60s on the high hp builds... as far the protomotive koolaid we will be drinking it and keep breaking 60 -130 records , you just keep drinking your haterade..

as far as badgering ?? i was simply making a point , to bad you got but hurt over it .

 

I wasn't planning on posting but your post have been making my brain hurt! Chris is not bashing Protomotive, he knows they build badass car. If you read they were talking about injectors and 60 pounders past 700rwhp is very unsafe. Im pretty sure people dont want to blow up the $20k motor for not spending a few more bucks on injectors. You keep bringing up 60-130 times but I must have missed your thread were you ran some record times? What was it I don't feel like searching.
Matt

 

Badgers are cute little animals.

ahhhhh..... OK back on topic. Just trying to ease the tension....

OK - So I want to make 1,000WHP with 1992 Single Cam Civic injectors (Yes I will make sure to have enough... And yes I am fine with adding 14 extra injectors if I need to meet fuel requirements). Possible?



K - Sorry got bored and my head hurt too. More power talk - love it... More Tial insight.... Have a great Friday all!

 

Are you just blind to the facts or something? I think the current 24/18G car record is held by EPL as far as 60-130 goes.. 6.08 seconds... Maybe one day your car will run and you can do something impressive, but until then just sit back on the bench and shut up. This is not a bench racing section.

And just a heads up.. If you didn't read Joe's thread, he did a 4.8 60-130 with 2, thats right 2 slower shifts. I think on a dedicated 60-130 pass my guess is he's going to make Scott and Mark's passes look like childs play.

So one day when you learn a little about how cars work, and not just what someone tells you, you can come talk with the grown ups!

As far as your edit goes... I ask why on a build like Scott's would you use a small injector. If Todd changed injectors later than that is fine, but if he didn't then he just band-aided the problem goes and left it as it was. That's not a reading comprehension issue, thats just you not knowing anything about these cars again. Again if Todd did in fact change the injector after letting the car go to the customer than props to him for doing the right thing.

Let me guess, next you're going to mention you can beat me up because I'm making you look like a tool in this thread?

Anyway I'm off to lunch, so there better be lots of replys when I get back.

 

BTW sorry the thread got off track, Great build your going to love the gt30's and Tony's tune!

 

Powel,
My car originally put down safely 680cc injectors 871 rwhp... then I went with current injectors ( 750cc).... My car is shy 16 rwhp of 1000 at 1.63 bar.
Im not going to get into injector duty cylces.... thats for the minds... but the truth is that I am at 1000 rwhp and 900 rwTQ on 750 ccs..

As far as Bobby's cars.... trust me you dont want to start that one.... he exists and so do his cars...
he has been a pioneed in his own right when it comes to P cars... seen it with my own eyes.
Todd made 900+ rwhp on C16 with 60 lbs. and 834rwhp on 100 octane...
that I know as I have dyno sheets...

markski

 

ha! no worries man... once the install / tune is done I'll post up results.

 

Chris,
No, we didn't RIG anything. We merely ran it to the limits to know where they were and informed the client of them so they wouldn't exceed them.
Our builds are sent out with specific instructions as to what fuels to run at what boost levels, and the customers love that versatility. That fact that we can tune open loop with the giant maf's means that they can safely run C16 for extended periods without worrying about O2 sensor failures.
I have not flow tested the RC 60's, but have calibrated remotely for them, and they require a different injector constant than the Siemens 60's, almost 10% which is why I'm guessing either they're 54lbs, or the Siemens flow more than 60. It could also be atomization and spray pattern that are creating the difference. I just know they're different in calibration.
We have run 72lb injectors, and 83lb injectors. Robmd's ran to 1009rwhp on the 72s at 4.2 bar which makes them more like an 85lb injector. Yes, that was the 100% dutycycle point and it tapered lean. But he knows that and respects that. Alex ran to 1109 on his 83's during a remote tune.
And just for your information, a smaller injector at higher pressure will always provide better atomization than a larger injector at lower pressure. In general, Large injectors end up with inconsistent flow patterns at extremely short ms openings, similar to what happens at 100% dutycycle on a small injector. For instance, on the 964, Porsche went down to an 18lb injector at 3.8bar vs. the 3.2 carrera 911 running a 21lb injector at 2.8 bar to improve the fuel economy and atomization. They've kept the higher pressures, and the newer 997.2 stuff is running silly fuel pressures now with the DFI stuff.
They're designed to operate within certain boundaries. As aftermarket tuners, we push those limits further than the oem designers had ever intended.
If you don't find the limits, how do you know where they are?

 

Todd, thank you for posting. Again I respect all you have done for this industry. I wanted to know your view point and I got it. We may not see eye to eye on injector size and fuel pressure, but we both want to see cars make some serious power. To each is his own. +1 rep for you when I get back to a computer, as I am on my phone right now.

Mark I am not saying Bobby doesn't exist but I have a hard time believing something that defys the laws of drag racing. I know you have made power and I believe that it was on the injector but as I posted in my eyes that is not as safe, but like I said to Todd to each is his own when it comes to tuning and fuel systems.

 

Chris, You're very welcome. I don't post here very often, but felt it was necessary.
These cars are all about 'entertainment value', so let's have fun with them and not be at each others throats.
We're all making forward progress on these cars and can certainly learn from each other.
Kudos to EPL for making some very fast k2418g cars.

 

Hey Todd,

Great to see you chime in. Based on some of the comments above, we tune VERY differently, but I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter much.

Our customers cars run great and they all love the end result.

Dont be a stranger here, Im sure there are many that would love to see your input in technical threads!

 

I only said that because you seem to act like quite a d-bag, similar to what I've seen on H-T. I could care less about a post count, or if your car is faster. In the end, your posts just show a ton of immaturity. I respect what any of these guys have been able to do with the 996's and it's quite remarkable to say the least. You bash Tony because he recommends going to a bigger injector for safety issues. No one wants to buy a new motor due to an injector being put at it's limits.

 

wow my protomotive koolaid is good

 

It's a good thing, doing things differently. Not every client wants the same product. I'm glad you're making clients happy with their cars, that's what this is all about. It's certainly not service work

It'd be great to have enough staff that I could concentrate on helping out the community, but unfortunately, I seem to be buried in work all the time and really have a hard time even getting on long enough to not only read, but respond to all this. Like me, I'm sure the client wants YOU to build and tune their cars, not an employee