The Carrillo rod is about 15 grams less than the stock Porsche rod. The Porsche rod weighs about 555 grams. The Carrillo rod is 540 grams. The Pauter rod is 545 grams. The above weights are for the stock 126 mm rod length. The Arrow Precision 130 mm length weighs 525 grams. The 130 mm stroker rod is 4 mm longer than the stock Porsche rod length for the 996tt motor. So 525 grams with 4 more mm's of length is excellent.

Regarding hold down options. There is a lot more to the design of 12 mm studs than the diameter or the 12 mm's. The depth, the thread and how the washers are cut into the head along with the design of the cut washer all play an important part. In addition, the head gasket and doubling o-ringing the heads with certain type rings also will hold them in place to well over 40 psi.

 

I still have a few sets of the different manufacturer's. The cost of the latest Arrow Precision rods were something else.

These rods were not only light and strong because of the type of oxygen free double melted steel but they were designed to use the NASCAR oval bearings, they were rifle drilled with a laser so as to pump oil to the wrist pins and then the wrist pin hole was rifle drilled to provide oil to the cooling cavities below the piston dome. The wrist pin area is treated with a carbon like diamonds material as are the wrist pins.

 

The original post was not about a state of the art $50K build out... at the rate you guys are going this member will need $35K just to do the motor and probably sign a $90K check after 2 years waiting...
So back to reality... a 15K build will get you some good studs, rods, and if he is lucky a good install... he should leave the heads alone.. they flow well... sure the cams can be bigger but the extra $10K in headwork and cams does not make sense when you can make 850rwhp on stock heads and cams... why look for trouble... its not like any of the 1100rwhp cars are breaking into 8s or 9s.... or running 3s 60 to 130... save money... do the basics... get some good hardware on the car and get it installed right( half of the battle), and enjoy... meanwhile the rest are sitting and waiting for the $100K builds...
just my opinion... not intended towards anyone.. just speaking from experience on my own car...
markski

 

CJV if you have an extra set of rods laying around collecting dust feel free to send them my way

 

markski,

Although your comment to a point has validity, without this conversation how many members would even have a choice for free power via understanding the prudence of rod lightness. Many motors have not been built to their potential because someone saved a few "bucks" when relatively inexpensive power was available by simply choosing the better product.

Yes, head world can be relatively expensive, however what most people miss or don't want to understand is that most monsters motors can be made with gobs of boost, however that doesn't make it a quick motor from a certain point A to a certain point B. The real monster's show themselves via quickness from point A to point B.

Nothing is wrong with basics as you point out, however it is nice to be able to have enough information to choose the better basic.

Since when is more power on lower boost been looking for trouble.

 

That is actually funny. When Todd was building marski's motor he needed to borrow a set of cams and then I never got them back although I was paid for them. The problem was they were trying to get certain cams that simply were not available without a long lead time. They were from my motor. The same thing happened with markski's car with a set of my axle's. I eventually got them back. This was due to my relationship with Todd K. Just prior to VR Alexander's crash, Art4iza PM'ed me and asked if I could help Alexander procure a set of intake cams for his motor. I sent him the cams free of charge. When Big Bad Ben had motor problems I offered him rods and a special head gasket to get his motor back together. He didn't need the rods. but he needed the head gasket. There was no charge. Stephen, Porsche PhD, one time needed a exhaust system to borrow as in yesterday. I sent it to him, he paid the freight and I got it back months later.

I don't make a point of giving things away, but many people have been helped. To answer your question ....... yes there are both Pauter and Carrillo's just collecting dust. There are probably enough parts to assemble three motors and still have parts to spare.

 

It's always a balance between cost and performance wanted. Yes the light rods are GREAT but does it justify double or triple the price for a 1% improvement ? Just depends on your budget. I have not done a 996 motor but owned a race shop for 25 years and did 100's of sprint cars and other stuff.
I love lightweight stuff, even tried a couple titanium cranks for comp eliminator cars, talk about bucks.
Would you like a callies crank (50 lb) for 1700.00 or a windberg 32 pounder for 3500.00++?? CNC head porting for 1500.00 or cnc + hand porting and wet flow for 6500.00+ and a 2% better flow?

Always a good debate and always will be.

 

I believe a point is being missed. Take the Carrillo and Pauter rods. The pricing is within a couple hundred dollars or each other. That is about 10%. Where is this double or triple come from? Even if you go with Arrow, it's maybe 25% more.

If pricing is comperable with these items and it is ......... then do your homework as to designed strength and weight and get the best rod for your money. This reminds me of discussions related to such things as intercoolers, headers and exhaust. They "look" or "sound" good and that's about it. Decisions are made without any inquiry as to what physically is in the make up of what makes the particular part good.

 

No, point is well taken, 10% is of course in anyones budget. Arrow rods for a 996 run aprox 2100.00 for the stocking rod, so with options more. oliver billet's full custom with edm pin oil ect run 1100.00 for 6 (about 187.00 per rod last time i ordered a set) they are not as light, but will hold 1800 hp in a twin turbo smallblock. So basicly is 15 gr worth 1000.00 more? If its the difference between pole and 2nd in a 75,000.00 motor you bet it is. If the cost is close i always pick the better part, but everyone has a budget and a time frame to work in be it a street car of a cup car.

 

So to stick to what the OP is looking for; the basics:

-The Pauter rods are great, and they are pretty much plug and play. I was told that the Carillos hit the oil pump and require more modification to install (i.e., more money).

-As far as headwork, I had a $1,500.00 port and polish job done on the stock heads of my last car and it worked wonders. 830rwhp @ only 1.4 BAR with GT30's? I'm a big fan. Heck, I would have done it again this time if my tune hadn't been so perfect. But I didn't want to have to start tuning from scratch.

-If the lifters are the old part numbers, I'd definitely replace them as well. They're cheap.

-Some guys say headstuds, some don't. Your call. I went with the stockers on my GT2. I just couldn't justify aftermarket ones.

Everything else I'd leave stock.

 

I would like to demonstrate what is involved with the statement "I was told that the Carillos hit the oil pump and require more modification to install (i.e., more money.)" I am not questioning this was said, just want to put a physical face as to what is really being done.

First, understand the following is a GT1 or 965 three index oil pump. It is many times larger and probably twice the body length of the stock oil pump or the two index GT3 oil pump. Please understand the "more money" grinding that is required. Also understand the grinding that is shown if far more than would be required with a stock stroke 78.4 mm crank. The grinding that is shown is for a 82.4 mm crank.

The grinding required for a stock stroke 3.6L motor with the stock oil pump or the upgraded GT3 oil pump with Carrillo rods is minimal. Furthermore, an engine builder who has done multiple builds on a 3.6 liter with either pump and used Carillo rods would know exactly where to grind and how much so a full mach up would not be necessary.

Again the more one knows of what is involved, the more one understands the true costs. My purpose is not to look for a fight ..... just to educate.

 

So it sounds like the Pauters are lighter than the Carrillos (by 1/2 gram according to 'Turbo GT', and 35.5 grams lighter than stock), require less modification to install, and cost less.

Looks like I saved almost half a pound of reciprocating mass on my engine build. Great info.

 

Scott, I know for a fact the Pauter rods for these motors weigh 545 grams per rod. I said if memory served me correctly the stock 996tt rod weighs 555 grams. For Turbo GT to be correct the stock rod would have to weigh 580 grams per rod.

Does anyone know for sure the weight of a stock 996tt rod?

 

Scott, I just weighed one to be sure. The weight of a 996tt rod without the bearing is 571 grams. So the Pauter rod @ 545 grams is 26 grams lighter than the stock 996tt rod. Still a nice weight savings over the stock rod.

 

And on that same scale a Pauter rod weighs 545 grams? As you said, 26 grams per rod is definitely a nice savings.

Thanks, Chad. That really is great information. Before this thread, I didn't even realize the Pauters were any lighter than stock.

On my Z06, I kept the stock Ti rods when I built the motor since aftermarket steel rods were so much heavier than the stockers.