I know someone in the UK that has done extensive testing with EFR turbos for the last 3 years on a different platform (2.0 16v Cosworth YB), justnow he is using EFRs on builds ranging from 450bhp to 900bhp.
Through his testing using the twin scroll housing became a must for response and even saw gains by how far the flange divider extended into the exhaust housing.
Im not sure how the split pulse design would work on a Porsche where only 3 cylinders are in the manifold ?
I know another tuner over here using them on the Focus RS 5 pot and is still seeing gains with a 2 -3 split.

 

I would believe transient response are better due the light EFR-series exhaust wheel.

 

If 'tad' means 7-900rpm then I agree

32krazy!, are you talking about the built 3.8L on E85 with a standalone and comparing it to stock motor spool? RobTuned 997 stock engine car just ran a 5.2sec 60-130 with 63mm VTGs matching this 7163's built engine best run so far. If we'll evaluate cost then this was way cheaper to do and stock motor! Guess why its not quicker? More lag less acceleration in that initial 60-80 or 90mph area.

Yea with more displacement every turbo spools faster. Add E85 and if you know what you're doing you can pick up some more. Also are you aware that a 3071 is the same turbine as a 3076? Change is in the compressor wheel and that change makes the 3071 a faster spooling turbo by at least 7-800rpm.

I'm looking forward to see some customer car comparisons or your car with different combinations on it, some 60-130s, etc before making any other claims.

Can this setup be built with ANY other EFR? Why not do a 6758? At least stock motor and displacement guys would have a bit more fun response wise.

 

Tuners posting their personal car 60-130 is meaningless and most realize that, point is getting a customer setup with the same thing and seeing repeatable results. I'd put 1000$ down against anyone willing to wager these 2 cars (vtg vs efr7163) on the same fuel, run down a track side by side. Zero400, will you take that bet?

 

Its also a stock motor 3.6 vs a built motor 3.8. Too close in the real world and below 100mph the vtg car will respond far better is what I keep yapping about. This 7163 setup is better than the vtg for 1/4 and 1/2 mile. No one doubts that but is this a 1/4 or 1/2 mile setup you think is best?? What you don't want to admit, although I'm sure you know full well, 7163 isn't for everyone, its not better than a 28 on stock motor in everyone's books. It won't spool just a TAD slower than a set of 28s or 3071s on the 3.6, considerably slower. If we're now talking 1/4 or 1/2 mile let me grab a set of HTA 3586s E85 and a built 3.8 and let's race.

 

No, below 100mph the VTG car will not outperform the 7163. I never compared the 7163 to the a28, no need to put words in my mouth.

The bolt-on 6758 would likely run circles around the a28, just haven't finish those yet.

I've addressed your issues, maybe you can address the recent join date and tell us about yourself so we don't all conclude you are just another fanboy armchair engineer talking out of their hat...

 

Again insults and pokes. Let's be adults here and just look at the damn data presented. I know my turbos and how to pick the right one. I will stand by for that data now that you got my attention this far. Anyone willing to discuss this further with simply claims and no data it won't do anything but spread misinformation. As for Rob Tuned results they are vbox verified like everyone elses. What results are you talking about that aren't?

 

7-900 i would disagree with, more in the 4-500 range. it also hugely depends on the tuning, the intake systems, the exhaust restriction, AR size, to many things changing from comparing 2 cars to say, look at this data compared to this data. you have to have the same car and swap turbos and log back to back.
As for the 3071 and 3076 using the same turbine, yes i know this and have built and modified hundreds of turbos over the years.

 

no im not. my otor was 3.6 with stock internals on proefi with both tials. seans is 3.6 with built internals with proefi on 7163. b/w was still faster

 

I thought itguy's 996TT was built into a 3.8L with higher than stock compression?

Am I thinking of a different car?

 

Seans car is 3.6 with 10 to 1 instead of 9.4to 1

Look its not apples to apples but comparing a turbo that tops out at 800 (3071) and a turbo that can see 1100+(7163) isnt either.

From the posts and emails i have from zero400 its apparent to me he has an agenda against SRM but doesnt want to say why

Before tial the 24/18 was the end all turbo for porsches. Now its something else. Its called progress and i would think people would be happy to have choices

 

What I think is funny here is he is making a big deal about an a28. The a28 actually has a smaller turbine wheel than a stock k16 turbo. I would never even think about putting one in a porsche personally no matter how fast it spools. Your drive pressure spike to high and the low torque kills the stock rods.
I will admit though I'm a big bw fan and was a bw wholesaler in the past.

Honestly I'd be really interested to see how my turbo I'm building for my car (what call a k20/20g) would di side by side against a 3071. I bet it would be very close

 

No doubt, choices are good for us!

I didn't realize that he kept it 3.6L, is all. These EFR turbos look really solid.

Would these be noticeably better on a stock motor 996TT than the SRM K24+ assuming 93 pump fuel?

 

Wait so now I have an agenda? You two are quite a handful. I wasn't going to go there at all but since you're literally being obnoxious why don't you share with the forum that you do internet marketing for SRM that you yourself told me over the PM. Aren't vendors supposed to be registered and pay a nominal fee? Since you're clearly on my case I just looked at some of your post history and its shocking how many times you are literally shoving SRM this and that in threads out there. How would the moderators feel about knowing this is happening and why isn't srm a vendor? I don't care but this bs name calling you two keep throwing my way is really quite pathetic and now I'm actually pissed.

This is getting really ridiculous at this point. As for Tial 28s a member asked about spool compared to this and he was told it would be a TAD slower and that's why if you go back that started to get discussed.

Enjoy the rest of 'your' agenda here 32krazy! Making others think I have one when I talk turbos and you talk sales and dollar numbers for SRM is not fair talk in my books. Discussion in this thread is immature and shady at best.

Slap the biggest EFR in there why not? It'll spool just a TAD slower than a 7163 and make a hell of a lot more power too. Wow!

 

I can attest to both as I've run A28, A3076, modified VTG's and EFR7163.

For comparisons sake, let me be clear on a few things:

-A28 setup was on stock 996 block on 91 octane, dialed back to save rods
-A3076 setup on a stock 996 block with e85, RWD
-63.5mm VTG (evoms 775 kit), stock block, 91 and e85, 997
-EFR7163 is on built 3.8L, on e85, 997

I will tell you that the A28's are very responsive. They basically spool while you idle (a joke, but not far from the truth). I can punch it and they go, they are probably one of my favorite turbos for street driving.

The A3076 can come on rather quick, too, and on a RWD car they felt insane, making significantly more power than the A28 with a small loss in response (about 500rpm for an extra 200hp)

63.5mm VTG's are fairly responsive, but loose a lot of power between shifts if you're not quick. I forget the term, but they will not respond like a A28, A30, EFR7163 when you lay back into them. Most modded VTG's will tap out around 700-750hp max, I see most in the 650-700 range.

EFR7163 will make more power than any of the above setups, but as physics would predict, some response is sacrificed. We're comparing apples to oranges as the BW and Tial/Garrett designs are different in several ways. However, if you want something a bit closer for comparison, use the 6758. I drive my car on the street, I drive it on the track and the half mile. These turbos have become my favorite because they do what I want them to do and offer a balance between response & power, while allowing me to enjoy it on the street. They are definitely more responsive than my VTG's.

You're going to have a hard time finding a turbo that response like a hybrid k16 or an a28, you may have a nice fast car under 100, and maybe a good 60-130, but you're not shooting for a 200mph half.

What I can tell you, for my goals, the EFR7163 is perfectly streetable, very, very responsive for a turbo capable of 1000hp in twin fashion. I know Eddie Bello pushed his A28's to somewhere in the 800's, but that was on a built motor and they were pushed to the brink.

And when did "tad" become a actual unit of measurement? From my experience, the EFR7163 will hit full boost 1000rpm later than the A28. I could hit full boost by 3500 on the A28's and 4500 on the EFR. I am trying to dig up my dyno graph to give a comparison of the response, but I have to dig.

If someone's looking for A28's, the EFR7163 is not the answer to give them a comparable product. If they're looking for modded VTG's, or Tial Alphas, want 700hp or more, I'd sell them on the EFR7163. They are especially useful for VTG guys wanting a more or less bolt on replacement, without having to rewire a ton of plumbing. There are things coming up in the near future that will allow you to leverage the stock ECU to control boost, similar to the 996, on a non-VTG turbo on the 997.

Regarding SRM - it's no secret that Sean built my car. I'm believer in his products, kits, and ability to bring a better product to the market at a price that others can't or won't.

Regarding the vendor advertising - that's already in the works. SRM has contributed knowledge and experience (and yes, some sarcasm), but that doesn't require a vendor account. I haven't seen a group buy thread or official product for sale through any of his customers, which some members sell for businesses that refuse to pay for a vendor membership... that isn't happening.

If anyone wants my feedback or experience on 996/997 and the various setups I've run/used (Stock K24, K24/16, A28, A3076, 63.5mm VTG, EFR7163) and various tunes / vendors, stock engine vs built, let me know. I am not an expert and I am not claiming to be, I am simply a member willing to share my experience.

Also note that SRM has a passion to bring products to the market that actually benefit the platform, not some garbage that does nothing and costs you a grand.

When we talk about the 60-130 times, I wasn't trying to make a statement and it was my first time on the kit in the 1/2 mile. 5.2s being my best, I don't know how that compares to Rob Tuned road. I also didn't log it to the SD card, so I don't have the vbox file (only data from the vbox mobile app). However, I'll be sure to do that next time so I can see more information on the run and give a fair comparison.

I am confident, though, that my car would outperform any other, same road, same rubber, same config (differing in turbos only) in several situations, but to say all is ridiculous. A28's will probably have a better 0-100, A3076, may have a 60-130, I don't know.

If anyone is on the fence about a 7163 setup, come out to Arizona. I'll take you for a ride, you can take my car for a drive (not on full tilt, I don't trust you guys that much!), and get an actual experience for yourself. People always want this or that, but they really don't know what they want. Then they purchase something, get in a car, and realize they hate it. Come try mine out, then you can tell me if you want faster response and less power or whatever floats your boat.

If we're going to spout on about agendas, I don't have one here. If I did, it would be to inform. Data from one vendor to another will vary, usually in favor of their product. Vbox allows for certain downslope, if you find a road with that 3%, you're golden. We have plenty of 1/2 mile events here, maybe someone with a 5.3s VTG car would like to come out and compare runs. I'm happy for them, that's an amazing time for a modified stock turbo!