You also need someone willing to put in the R&D, even then, it won't be good enough because someone will argue this tune vs that tune, etc.

You'd have to have same platform, swap turbos, swap tuners, swap ecus, more turners, more fuel kits, more this more that. Nobody has time or the wallet for that.

 

If someone would like to compare an A28, A30xx vs an EFR7163, send me the turbos and I'll do it. You can have them back when I'm done.

 

True but an actual back to back with no changes besides the turbos is about the best you can do to kind of definitively say A spools faster than B all other parameters being equal.

Yes it would be expensive. I used to do it in the past with the first generation of hybrid duramax ihi and vvt garretts we built

 

And then weld on new exhaust flanges, swap out for external/internal wg....etc etc etc

In the end, they are all fast and they are all fun... just pick and enjoy the car

 

I would honestly love to do it, but you'd need to use some generic tune as that can change the response as well.

All in, for about $10,000 in used turbo kits, could go through A28, A3076 and EFR7163. The Alphas would need a BPV setup and the EFR would keep the integrated setup, but it's definitely a possibility.

 

I'm STILL trying to figure out where the EFR was declared the bestest turbo evah. Folks asked about using them, someone met demand of the market by developing a kit to mount them economically. Some results have been posted. Suddenly someone with a low post count starts attacking? Did I miss something or does that sum it up?

Some folks, including myself, are interested in these new turbos and are looking for information about them which is why this thread was started. All of the *****ing is a real mystery to me, I thought we were just sharing and learning?

FWIW I understand why someone might not take a tuner car's result as gospel. A customer is going to tell you what he's done (usually) but someone who has a vested interest might not be willing to tell you about a displacement bump or compression change. Someone with a vested interest might not tell you about running a really aggressive tune or special fuel. Or the tuner might not be willing to beat the crap out of the "shop car"/personal transportation to "run a 9" whereas a customer might. It's terrific when a shop is willing to share results but it doesn't surprise me at all if those results are looked at with a jaundiced eye or not shared at all.

 

This is a back to back test done on a evo engine comparing EFR/BW and GT turbos. The only change was a turbo and the efr got a different manifold to make use of twin scroll.

RED EFR 8374
Purple BW S200sx
Green GT3076

 

Twin scroll comparison makes no sense here as it'll help a lot with spool and it can't be done, at least not in a way that makes sense, on a boxer type engine like ours.

 

when the EFR turbos came out (speaking subaru again) they had issues (the wastegates wouldn't hold and there were some issues with the BPV too) and i went back to the old S series turbos.

What frustrates me in the turbo world is people trying to sell the newest coolest turbo try to skirt physics.... Depending on your airflow and boost level these turbos take 30-100hp JUST TO COMPRESS THE AIR. Your fancy bearings and low drag compressor wheels don't change that any significant amount at all.

When you compare BW EFR turbos with Garrett turbos single scroll to single scroll twin scroll to twin scroll you'll find that depending on your hp goal there are no 2 identical turbos and act like half and quarter steps off from each other. one has 10hp more but spools 100 rpm later etc.

It should always be this trade off unless there is something wonky with the tune on one graph vs the other. That's what i was discussing earlier people keep posting things like i went to huge turbos and it spools faster.... well then something was wonky with your old setup typically the waste gate was failing like this one

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...908111020a.jpg

But could be bearing failure or a rich dip in the map etc.

Don't get me wrong, if we were talking about the terrible aero of an 80s turbo then yes that makes a difference. And in transient response the lower rotating mass does build boost faster once you've reached boost threshold (the rpm for which your engine is moving enough air to fully spool the turbo) but 9 times out of 10 when you hog out that compressor to a billet piece with the same dimensions that flows better it will spool slower even though it weighs less now.

the easiest way to tell if it is the turbo or the setup is to compare compressor maps. if the place your current turbo is operating in is in the 73% effient island and your old turbo was in the 65% effient island and they both choke at 65lb/hr then i'll be damned you found a miracle compressor that for your engine should spool faster because for whatever reason less energy from the turbine is wasted creating heat in that compressor so it can get the oomph it needs at a lower RPM. This is rare with decent modern turbos that you'd see this. Maybe if you were comparing some masterpower turbo or something designed off an 80s then sure the efr/gtx turbo may be way more efficient. but 99.995% of the time bigger turbo makes more power and spools slower all other variables held constant.

At least that's my experience/education in turbo machinery which is why i run turbos that survive over the latest greatest brand new thing. That being said.... those xona turbos look amazing.