Guys,

Something I've wondered - figured it was worth asking. Now, before going any further - please, please, please... for Pete's sake, don't turn this into a "my tuner's awesome - every other tuner sucks" thread. If that's all you have to contribute, I'd rather if you mosey on over to someone else's thread.

So, here's the thing... from many well-respected, reputable 996TT tuners, prices for X50 tunes vary quite a bit. At the lower end, I've seen $1k... all the way up to $2,500. That's a pretty big spread, no?

As a secondary observation - I've noticed some tuners charge more for tuning an X50/GT2/S, vs. tuning a base K16 car... ballpark of about $500 more. But, not everyone does... so, for those that do, why do they?

I'm confident I'd be happy with Protomotive, EPL, EVOMSit, Softronic, UMW, et al. - but frankly it's a little tough deciding on who to partner with at this point. I'm thinking tune/WGs/5 BAR FPR and leave well enough alone for awhile. Conventional wisdom seems to suggest all will be pretty comparable at that level - but I'm open to corrections/feedback if mistaken.

 

Why don't you ask a few guys who actually switched tuners... I have when I was a virgin lol they are not all the same.. a 1 bar file from xxx will not run no nowhere near as strong as others even at same boost... I have, this year, taken in 3 cars with other tunes because the clients were unhappy... when they got the car back they thanked me for a great job done...
Anyone that is willing to give you a tune to try without paying for it upfront is confident it will meet standards.. I know I am...

 

How am I supposed to know who they are? They're welcome to post here, or PM me, if that's more "politically correct" since this can be a sensitive topic. To make sure I'm understanding... these are guys on stock turbos (either OEM K16 or OEM K24), dissatisfied with tunes and switching?

That's great info, thank you Markski. Like the new slogan, too - nice double entendre.

To clarify - you give clients a Protomotive tune to try, and if they're satisfied, then they pay you?

 

If someone is willing to let you have a trial flash, why not unless your got some real world results (real dyno - not butt dyno) of a good tune. Most of the majors tuners on this board would not be here if they did not have a good product that they stand behind.

 

Thanks - that's kinda how I felt too.

I'm still curious why some (but not all) tuners charge more for OEM K24 tunes vs. OEM K16... does anyone know?

 

I'm one of them (dunno if Mark was counting me in his 3 count).

I had a GIAC 1.0 Bar tune from ~2004 (tried to get them to upgrade it but was unsucessful -- I think they lost records from that far back). This was with exhaust, .2RS intercoolers, Vflow intake, DVs, intake pipes to K16s. All the bits a K16 could want.

I got a tune from Markski and couldn't have been happier. It was a *marked* improvement. Much more oomph in the mid-range and even the low speed driving characteristics were improved (parking lots).

I liked it so much I bought a set of K24s, had Markski take care of them to 18gs and had them installed. Picking it up tomorrow.


**edit: also I paid a little more up front for updated tunes when I add more parts (i.e. 18gs)

 

It might cost a little more as the time a tuner spends developing and testing a tune for an X50 is in addition to the time he spent developing a tune for a K16 car. Many tuners will allow (for a charge) to upgrade their tune as you upgrade components on your car. These seem a fair way for the tuner to be compensated for the work being provided.

 

Interesting thought. Alternatively, perhaps it's due to a smaller target market. I'd expect X50/S/GT2s aren't as widespread as base 996TTs, so if you assume both tunes were developed "from scratch" to optimize each group, recouping the R&D costs from the K24 group would suggest a higher price point per unit. I'll have to mull that over, but thanks for the thought provocation.

Agree - or, as vrhenry points out, some will allow you to pay a little more upfront for reflashes (whether you need them or not). A bit of a gamble on the part of the customer, and the tuner, but an intriguing option nonetheless.

 

I had a flash put on my car and thought it was OK. That was until I got a flash from Protomotive. Night and day. Plus Todd will "upgrade" your flash for a small fee as you add more stuff like upgraded turbo's and such.

I have to give all the credit for my car to Markski who "schooled me" on what works and what just makes money for the tuners. He has been totally honest and up front in his dealings with me. Same goes for Protomotive, TOP NOTCH! The same can not be said for previous tuners.

Do your research and spend your money once. Those of us that have spent more than necessary are happy to share our lessons.

VR4Henry knows my car and I think it helped him go with Markski/Protomotive?

 

Like everthing else in life, it's all about service...the tuners that charge a little more. likely will upgrade you for free or a minimal charge..as they know most people will always upgrade at some point...job security you might say....

 

I would also suggest that location matters when you are selecting amongst credible tuners. Sure, just about every tuner can upgrade you remotely, but someday you will have an issue and you won't know if it's your tune or your waste gates or your MAS or a boost leak or something else. Being able to bring it to your tuner and get it up on the dyno and plugged into a datalogger, a must for any tuner or tuner installer in my opinion, should carry a significant amount of weight on your criteria.

This is a longer way of saying what TTBoost said. Service really matters and I would argue that service works better when you are driving distance away, whether that's 1 hour or 4, you will feel better knowing they are there, even if you never need it.

 

..Agreed...I have been there...You are right about those guys,top notch ! ..

 

i'm putting my flame suit on, but what's the cheapest ecu tune out there? the cheapest i've found is $800 for an Upsolute on an X50/Turbo-S. As long as it makes more power than stock, i'm happy..

 

That's the cheapest I've ever heard of.

I think UMW is $1k, which seems pretty reasonable, and a lot of Rennlisters like Kevin. The problem with UMW (as I see it, anyway - "problem" probably isn't the right word) is that Kevin only tunes for stock OEM turbos (K16s or K24s), or his own proprietary turbo upgrades, so if you ever want to go with Tial Alphas, or 18g billets, or 20g billets, etc... you'd have to switch tuners. You could go with his upgraded K24's, but they're pretty pricey IIRC. So, if going with UMW on an X50/S/GT2... most people would probably want to do tune/WGs and know they're going to stop there.

Then there are several tuners in the $1500-2500 range.

$800 is pretty dirt cheap, but to be fair I've never read any reviews of Upsolute from their customers, so I have no idea of the quality of their product.

 

To play devil's advocate again -- my car came with a tune. I would rather have had it stock than the old tune. It made it faster, but I lost smoothness and hell it probably stressed the car more than it should have.

I was happy to have paid the $ to get the right tune on the car. If someone is offering you a try-it-before you buy it Tune, I wouldn't hesitate. You'll understand what we're all talking about here once you do it.

Henry