RecentlyI had been second gusessing the reasoning I used in getting the X-50 option. After reading all the above, I am now quite happy I got it.

 

buddy,

What kind of "line up" are your refering to?

1) Quarter mile run?
2) 0-60 mph?
3) Top Speed?
4) 60-0?
5) Tight track?
6) Fast Tract?
7) 80-150 mph?


It is extremely likely the fastest car would on be the quickest. Or the quickest may not be the best handling. I think the bottom line is your car needs to make you and only you, happy.

 

I originally posted this on Rennlist as a response to BCS996TT's recent dyno test. Some of it is pertinent here so I have extracted certain portions of it..........................

Going back a few posts in this thread, Bill suggested just using wheel hp as a basis of comparison. I suggested this same thing in another post at some other time. I don't recall when or where. Nonetheless, who gives a rats *** what the drivetrain loss is? It will vary depending on the age of the car, the transmission oil used, the maintenance of the CV joints, the wheel bearings, etc. Each car will have a slight degree more or less loss than another. Then you have to wonder if it is an absolute horsepower loss value, a constant percentage or variable with rpm. Hocus, pocus. In my opinion, based upon my knowledge of "work", "energy" and "power", the only legitimate way to determine loss for a specific vehicle on a specific dyno under specific ambient conditions (can be corrected) is to perform two dyno tests back to back, an engine dyno and a chassis dyno and see what the actual loss is. Is there any engine/chassis dyno comparison data available to support any of these loss claims?
As I suggested before and as I will again, for the purposes of our web forum comparisons, why don't we simply agree to adopt a methodology of comparing wheel horsepower and furthermore state the standard used as cjv has previously stated?

Just for sh_ts and giggles, I will perfom a loss evaluation exercise..........
I had a baseline dyno test performed last May by AWE. The only modification that I had done at the time was the Europipe Stage 2 exhaust.
Let's assume the following:

1. Porsche's documented stock engine power figure of 415hp is accurate and a maximum value (occurs at some unknown rpm).
2. Europipe's documented gain of 18hp is accurate and a maximum.
3. Porsche's 415hp and Europipe's 18hp gain occur at the same rpm value (not likely but no other way to account for it)
4. The maximum wheel horepower rating from my AWE test occurs at the same rpm as the above two maximums. Not likely.
5. Dyno test standards are uniform from Porsche, Europipe and AWE. Alternatively, atmospheric conditions were the same. Again, not likely, but correctable.
6. Porsche's test car, Europipe's test car and my car had similar drivetrain wear, similar mileage and similar maintenance.

Given all of these errors.............This means the maximum engine horsepower should be 415+18=433hp.
My maximum wheel hp from AWE's dyno test was 372 (Wow was that low!! ).
Simple algebra of 372/433=.8591. Put another way, 372hp of the engine's 433 hp actually got to the wheels. The rest was lost.
This means (1-.8591)*100=14.09% of the engine power was lost in the translation to the wheels.

In my opinion there are way too many variables to even atempt to compare engine horsepower between two cars.

My opinion.........State wheel horepower, dyno used and correction standard used.

With regard to Buddy's car, the baseline test on Garret's dyno is appropriate and necessary. The results should be viewed as such, a baseline for comparison. I am eager to see the comparison between the baseline and the fully tweaked red beast results. Good luck Budman!!!!

Disclaimer:
The aformentioned are only my opinions based on my knowledge.

 

Buddy if no internal work is being done what is the expected life of the engine.what boost are you running?

 

These numbers look EXTREMELY weak and do not speak well for the Stage 5 package. Why not just do a rear wheel dyno? I would wait until all the tuning is done and then show the numbers. This just looks bad.

 

Guys.. as Buddy stated, this is just the first round. Give them some time!!! The cake is not yet fully baked, and icing not yet applied, and many are complaining it doesn't taste good.

Buddy... You had better get posting!!! You need to be around 550 posts in the next day or two. =)

 

sticky,

The only thing wrong in my opinion is the package was advertised as 700 hp and therefore everyone was expecting 700 hp weeks ago when buddy picked up his car. As the numbers get closer to 700 it becomes increasingly harder to extract additional power.

Aside from that, I appreciate the fact buddy posts the ups and the downs. I think we can all take this Stage V for what it appears to be. That is an attempt to assemble an economical and reliable 700 hp package. The package does not appear to be there yet, however I do not believe it won't be much longer.

Thanks for the update buddy. Judging from the thread views, there is alot of interest in what you are doing. Best of luck at attaining your goal.

 

Okay,

From what I understand and Colin or Tony from PES would have to verify this, the Stage 5 development car was dyno tested at just shy of 700 flywheel horsepower. When they did my car they used a different and bigger throttle body and intake. They decided to only run my car to xx number of boost like 1.1 I think was all I was getting on the stock boost gage. They wanted and paid for my car to go enclosed transport to California to GIAC for Garrett and the boys to finish tuning the car to 700 flywheel hp and beyond hopefully.

So I am not dissapointed as this was all explained to me ahead of time. I have been very happy with Colin, Tony and PES to date. I would fully expect by the time all is said and done that the AWHP will be 525 to 550, which if you want to guess is maybe 700 to 733 flywheel hp.

I have been stated my numbers as RWHP which is in fact WRONG. I have currently 467 AWHP (ALL WHEEL HORSEPOWER).

Now the question I have is Chad ran 626 Rear wheel horsepower and I hope to be around 525 to 550 All Wheel horsepower. So does that mean that if Chad kept his front driveshaft disconnected his car would have 100 more hp than mine? If so could he get all the power to the ground as well as my 525 All wheel horsepower???

 

Chad wrote:

>>What kind of "line up" are your refering to?

1) Quarter mile run?
2) 0-60 mph?
3) Top Speed?
4) 60-0?
5) Tight track?
6) Fast Tract?
7) 80-150 mph?<<

Chad,

I would think Quarter mile, 0 to 60 and 0 to 100.
Road course time medium style track and both cars on the same dyno one right after the other.

Not sure I want to test top speed, where can it be done safely? I don't have a rollcage, etc...

80 to 150 would be fine as well and 60 to 0 and 100 to 0.

 

Buddy,
Just some basic info to somewhat address your 10/30/03, 8:01am post above........
If a person removes the front driveshaft, they have also "removed" the drag and friction of the driveshaft bearings, the front differential, the halfshafts, the cv joints, the wheel bearings and the inertia of the front wheels and all of the related mechanics of the front drive system. Basically, it takes power to spin all of this stuff (inertia) and overcome the friction of all of it as well. That said, by disconnecting it, the same amount of power produced by the engine is now only directed to the rear wheels. Therefore, one would expect the wheel horsepower of a car with the front system disconnected to be higher than that of a car with the front system connected. This is completely irrespective of the dyno used and is simply basic math. I know this seems intuitive and obvious but it was worth mentioning.

 

I also had my car dynoed before and after the mods. I have the stage 4, K24s, fabs loud, BMC and DVs. My car was set at a lower 91 octane I think. Before mods using a dynodynamics was 320 RWHP and after mods highest run was 401 RWHP. That means with the mods I gained 80 RWHP. Oh, our fuel is kinda low on octane as well.

I knew I couldnt get as many HP as you guys, but I am off about 50 RWHP. Even though with more adjusting in the wastegates, I wouldnt get 50-70 RWHP. I was advised that I should use MoTec for more tuning. What do you guys think using a motec inconjunction with the stage 4 ?

Thanks,

PN

PS: standard run

 

Throttle body cut off run made 380 RWHP

The last run which is 401RWHP I will post tomorrow. I think that dip is the computer retarding the timing ?

 

PN, the stage 4 should be close to 500 rwhp?

 

I used an AWD Dyno DYnamics and got 360 with car in stock mode and Fabspeed and 420 with car in level 4/IA600 mode....
I think my graphs are up on KTR Performance's website if someone wants to post them...Note that my run was done in 3rd gear!!! The torque delta between stock and IA600 is a lot greater than the HP delta and since HP and TQ are related I think there is something wrong...

 

Duane,

Thats what I was hoping for. Given that our fuel is worse than you fuel, I still cant figure out that 50 Hp difference. Msindi is using the same dyno like me, and his numbers are only 20 Hp off than me tho.

PN