What would be essentials for a must have for a car for k16's ( no i'm not going bigger turbos ) . What are the main items to focus when rebuilding the motor to eliminate as many weaklinks as possible out of the metzger motor, and extract as much as power out of the car. A friend of mine ( he also post is here once in awhile) keeps asking me when i'm going to rebuilt the motor. He said he will guide me and help me rebuilt the motor for free. He has vast experience in rebuilding old 911 motors, so i trust his knowlege.


Lets kick off a list!

-Coolant fix/ welds.
-911 tuning intake tubing.

 

Build it once, build it right.

Rods / Pistons or go ape**** and do a 3.8 or 4.0L

Ya. Won't go any bigger. I've heard that before. Said it myself. LOL

You build the engine, it's a no brainer going bigger. Especially when you can handle a bunch of torque

 

Rods , 997 tt intake manifold , ipd plenum,gt3rs oil pump , replace lifters , just to be on the safe side , and regrind the exhaust cam

 

Do yourself a favor and call Todd at Protomotive or even talk to Tim...You will get the right advice..
I don't believe with those turbos you would have to do that complete rebuild?

 

I could guarantee you that I would not go past K16's or ALPHA 28's.

My car is a track orientated drivers car not a straight line machine. I think drag racing or roll on type racing is dumb.

I think F1 is in the same school of though that I am. Anything more would take away from what he actually wants to use the car for!

 

If I did one, and I wasn't going for 1000+whp, I would just do rods, 12mm head studs and lifters. Stock everything else is proven.

 

How many miles on your engine? Just my opinion, but unless it's way over 100,000, I say you would be wasting your money on something that didn't need to be done. $4000 or $5000 will take care of the coolant pipe welding and the intake.

 

Hi F1Crazy. Not here to be the grammar police but a lot of people on boards don't have English as a first language -- just thought I'd point out that you are using REBUILDING correctly (with a "d") but REBUILT should be REBUILD. Since you did it 3 times (including the thread title) I assume it was not a typo.

Of course, REBUILT is the correct past-tense of REBUILD.

And like the guy above me asked, why in the world do you feel like you need to rebuild the motor? If you're not going for crazy power levels, and it's not broken, rebuilding it to prevent it from maybe breaking sometime doesn't make sense to me.

Cheers!

 

E,

Here are some things to think about. The main use.. Track and small turbo? Maybe a gt3 crank, ims, carrillo, STOCK pistons, gt3 oil pump, case work, little head work (stock valve train including stock valve springs) and studs. That will hold A28's all day long, You can get a roadrace friendly tune or use a ebc that has a scramble button that lets you run soft boost then hold the button (mounted on the steering wheel or shifter) for a little more when you can use it.

Tim

 

tim considering 1.5 bar on methanol what would a build like you describe cost?

 

Steve,

The gt3 crank and ims are spoken about do to F1's mostly track driving. I assume that he would like to stay with the k16 because of the driveability on the track with those turbos. Also the gt3 crank is about 3 lbs lighter then the turbo version, which lends itself to rev matching and lower inertia so when you let off the gas the car does not feel like it is trail braking as much.

I a not a fan on meth injection. Intercoolers and e85 is a better choice

 

Here's my short list:
* pin the case, boat tail, oil mod on case
* carrillo rods
* gt3 crank, cross drill mains and new gt3 / rs oil pump
* Ti retainers & new springs
* add new clutch set up from ERP

 

First of all , good luck for the build the op is doing ,

Did you use scramble boost in the HKS EVC6 ?
Big thanks Tim , you are awesome

 

I've been tossing the idea of a refresh and upgrade. Probably in the next year or two. But only 40k on the clock right now so in no hurry. Thinking Tim or Marski to do it. Going to get oil analysis and leak down over the winter.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhahlen

Build it once, build it right.

Rods / Pistons or go ape**** and do a 3.8 or 4.0L

Ya. Won't go any bigger. I've heard that before. Said it myself. LOL

You build the engine, it's a no brainer going bigger. Especially when you can handle a bunch of torque [IMG]file:///C:\Users\EBW\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\cl ip_image001.png[/IMG]

Thank you for the reply. I would like to go for a larger bore, but I'm not sure if that is for me, because of how reliable it will be. My car is used on road racing and as a daily driver.I want something that is going to be reliable as a stock car, and not need a special shop to work on my car if it has issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unvmy996

Rods , 997 tt intake manifold , ipd plenum,gt3rs oil pump , replace lifters , just to be on the safe side , and regrind the exhaust cam

What is the benefit of the 997 tt intake manifold ? Replace the lifters with? What is the benefit of regrind the exhaust cam ? And what is the cons ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnspeed

Do yourself a favor and call Todd at Protomotive or even talk to Tim...You will get the right advice..
I don't believe with those turbos you would have to do that complete rebuild?

John, I have 95k miles. I prefer reliability over being stranded on my way to work at 6am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine Guy

I could guarantee you that I would not go past K16's or ALPHA 28's.

My car is a track orientated drivers car not a straight line machine. I think drag racing or roll on type racing is dumb.

I think F1 is in the same school of though that I am. Anything more would take away from what he actually wants to use the car for!

EG is correct, this is for DD and road racing. Big turbos are no use for me at the track or DD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttboost

If I did one, and I wasn't going for 1000+whp, I would just do rods, 12mm head studs and lifters. Stock everything else is proven.

Which rods ? 12mm head studs from who ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by landjet

How many miles on your engine? Just my opinion, but unless it's way over 100,000, I say you would be wasting your money on something that didn't need to be done. $4000 or $5000 will take care of the coolant pipe welding and the intake.
<img id="ums_img_tooltip" class="UMSRatingIcon">

Lary, I'm at 95k miles. If i'm going to spend 4 to 5k on the those two items, why not spend 10k and do a complete over haul ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGaBiker

Hi F1Crazy. Not here to be the grammar police but a lot of people on boards don't have English as a first language -- just thought I'd point out that you are using REBUILDING correctly (with a "d") but REBUILT should be REBUILD. Since you did it 3 times (including the thread title) I assume it was not a typo.

Of course, REBUILT is the correct past-tense of REBUILD.

And like the guy above me asked, why in the world do you feel like you need to rebuild the motor? If you're not going for crazy power levels, and it's not broken, rebuilding it to prevent it from maybe breaking sometime doesn't make sense to me.

Cheers!

Thanks for advice... i would like to make sure my car is reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim941NYC

E,

Here are some things to think about. The main use.. Track and small turbo? Maybe a gt3 crank, ims, carrillo, STOCK pistons, gt3 oil pump, case work, little head work (stock valve train including stock valve springs) and studs. That will hold A28's all day long, You can get a roadrace friendly tune or use a ebc that has a scramble button that lets you run soft boost then hold the button (mounted on the steering wheel or shifter) for a little more when you can use it.

Tim

Thank you Tim, which carrilo part? case work ? Do you happen to have any part numbers ? Mind if i PM you for your contact info ? I have a umw tune, at the moment, would i need a custom tune with all these mods you are speaking off ? Like 32krazy, asked, what would total in parts cost for a build like this ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 32krazy!

tim considering 1.5 bar on methanol what would a build like you describe cost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim941NYC

Steve,

The gt3 crank and ims are spoken about do to F1's mostly track driving. I assume that he would like to stay with the k16 because of the driveability on the track with those turbos. Also the gt3 crank is about 3 lbs lighter then the turbo version, which lends itself to rev matching and lower inertia so when you let off the gas the car does not feel like it is trail braking as much.

I a not a fan on meth injection. Intercoolers and e85 is a better choice

Correct, track driving and DD is the use for my car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0396

Here's my short list:
* pin the case, boat tail, oil mod on case
* carrillo rods
* gt3 crank, cross drill mains and new gt3 / rs oil pump
* Ti retainers & new springs
* add new clutch set up from ERP

thank you, can you elaborate in pin the case, boat tail and oil mod case ?...

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavychevy

I've been tossing the idea of a refresh and upgrade. Probably in the next year or two. But only 40k on the clock right now so in no hurry. Thinking Tim or Marski to do it. Going to get oil analysis and leak down over the winter.

Dez, as you know from my post on rennlist. I was waiting to see what Porsche came up with the new 991 GT3 / GT2/ Turbo as i'm due for a refresh. I'm disappointed in the direction Porsche is heading. I thought about getting a GT2 997, but i would be paying 100k for a car that has the same performance that my 996T has. If I rebuild the motor for say 10k in parts, and I have a reliable motor, eliminate all the weak links of the Metzger motor, and increase the engine performance to get closer to a 997 GT2, I'm left with 90k change. Interior and exterior is secondary, so 90k is a lot of money for say 1 second faster that a 997 GT2 can be at the track then my current car after i prep the GT2. My other choice is a mp4-12c. That car is electronics nirvana, so it wouldn't be replacing my 996 T. I would say my 996 T is a very special car, the way it currently sits. Analog everything. I thought about selling it, but with a refresh motor, sub 10k, why would I ? Porsche, Ferrari, Mclaren etc, will most likely never produce a car that inspires "true" driver involvement. So why sell my car for 30k when for 10k I can have this car as my ultimate drivers car ? Instead i plan on adding a mp4-12c in 2-3 years time, and make it my DD. I truly believe the 996 GT3 / GT2 / Turbo are going to be sought after 20 years from now when people realize, these cars were the last "true" pure Porsche drivers car. The 997 is to synthetic (the turbo is at least, the GT3/2 is to much money for little advance in chassi development). The 993 feels ancient. The 996 is just right.