Alpha 3076, E85 tune, Stock Engine
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From: Australia
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Detonation can do many wonderful things to internals on the motor and much sooner than just pure torque that people mention as limits. Cylinder pressures during detonation/knock are significantly higher than in a motor that doesn't knock. In other words, you may have a motor with half the torque throw a rod if it ran with inadequate octane for its tuning/hardware or due to a bad injector or a heat spot forming inside the combustion chamber.
Outside of just purely dyno testing and tuning for minimal knock I don't believe that anyone here has done enough instrumentation with the internals and checking the motor internals over time with a given "proper tune" to know well enough where the torque limit really is as its VERY hard to do and very time consuming as it isn't something that can be covered in a day or a few days on the dyno. There are established guidelines as to where the stock motor internals lie based on when they showed fatigue/bending but given how much octane can vary, how different tuning can be, how different run conditions the motors are exposed to can be, its next to impossible to know those limits unfortunately.
All you can do at the end of the day is be reasonable on the stock motor, ensure you have a great tune that doesn't knock and provides for consistent power on octane you're using and hope for the best. Building internals doesn't negate the need for monitoring/failsafes. In fact the harder you push, built or not, the more failsafes and monitoring must be in place to make things function reliably and live long happy lives outside your neighbourhood indy shop
Dzenno@PTF
Outside of just purely dyno testing and tuning for minimal knock I don't believe that anyone here has done enough instrumentation with the internals and checking the motor internals over time with a given "proper tune" to know well enough where the torque limit really is as its VERY hard to do and very time consuming as it isn't something that can be covered in a day or a few days on the dyno. There are established guidelines as to where the stock motor internals lie based on when they showed fatigue/bending but given how much octane can vary, how different tuning can be, how different run conditions the motors are exposed to can be, its next to impossible to know those limits unfortunately.
All you can do at the end of the day is be reasonable on the stock motor, ensure you have a great tune that doesn't knock and provides for consistent power on octane you're using and hope for the best. Building internals doesn't negate the need for monitoring/failsafes. In fact the harder you push, built or not, the more failsafes and monitoring must be in place to make things function reliably and live long happy lives outside your neighbourhood indy shop
Dzenno@PTF
"If it aint broke... go larger and break it.." I say
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,551
From: tn
Rep Power: 628
before spending over 1000$ for evoms studs i would pay 684$ and get the racewear studs.
at least they give specific specs on their hardware.
http://raceware-fasteners.com/head-stud-kits/
heres all you get from evoms no specs at all. just a sales pitch that basically says buy theres because they are more expensive for a reason
http://www.evoms.com/High_Performanc...p/evhsk-10.htm
arp doesn't give any specs on their setup either and torque is only 38 ft/lbs in 2 steps which seems a tad light to me. that may be why they don't hold?
at least they give specific specs on their hardware.
http://raceware-fasteners.com/head-stud-kits/
heres all you get from evoms no specs at all. just a sales pitch that basically says buy theres because they are more expensive for a reason
http://www.evoms.com/High_Performanc...p/evhsk-10.htm
arp doesn't give any specs on their setup either and torque is only 38 ft/lbs in 2 steps which seems a tad light to me. that may be why they don't hold?
Last edited by 32krazy!; Aug 5, 2015 at 05:05 PM.
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Posts: 1,236
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Thats why you pick up the phone and speak directly to their tech and then their builder............lol. Then you will get a non bull**** answer directly from the source of information of real world testing and not some BS......but thats just me. They shared a good amount of knowledge and limitations on their product that isn't online.....
Less is more isn't always the best idea.......
Less is more isn't always the best idea.......
before spending over 1000$ for evoms studs i would pay 684$ and get the racewear studs.
at least they give specific specs on their hardware.
http://raceware-fasteners.com/head-stud-kits/
heres all you get from evoms no specs at all. just a sales pitch that basically says buy theres because they are more expensive for a reason
http://www.evoms.com/High_Performanc...p/evhsk-10.htm
arp doesn't give any specs on their setup either and torque is only 38 ft/lbs in 2 steps which seems a tad light to me. that may be why they don't hold?
at least they give specific specs on their hardware.
http://raceware-fasteners.com/head-stud-kits/
heres all you get from evoms no specs at all. just a sales pitch that basically says buy theres because they are more expensive for a reason
http://www.evoms.com/High_Performanc...p/evhsk-10.htm
arp doesn't give any specs on their setup either and torque is only 38 ft/lbs in 2 steps which seems a tad light to me. that may be why they don't hold?
Banned
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,551
From: tn
Rep Power: 628
Thats why you pick up the phone and speak directly to their tech and then their builder............lol. Then you will get a non bull**** answer directly from the source of information of real world testing and not some BS......but thats just me. They shared a good amount of knowledge and limitations on their product that isn't online.....
Less is more isn't always the best idea.......
Less is more isn't always the best idea.......
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 679
From: UK
Rep Power: 53
before spending over 1000$ for evoms studs i would pay 684$ and get the racewear studs.
at least they give specific specs on their hardware.
http://raceware-fasteners.com/head-stud-kits/
heres all you get from evoms no specs at all. just a sales pitch that basically says buy theres because they are more expensive for a reason
http://www.evoms.com/High_Performanc...p/evhsk-10.htm
arp doesn't give any specs on their setup either and torque is only 38 ft/lbs in 2 steps which seems a tad light to me. that may be why they don't hold?
at least they give specific specs on their hardware.
http://raceware-fasteners.com/head-stud-kits/
heres all you get from evoms no specs at all. just a sales pitch that basically says buy theres because they are more expensive for a reason
http://www.evoms.com/High_Performanc...p/evhsk-10.htm
arp doesn't give any specs on their setup either and torque is only 38 ft/lbs in 2 steps which seems a tad light to me. that may be why they don't hold?
So what are the raceware studs good for boost and HP wise as ive ended up with 3582 turbos.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,551
From: tn
Rep Power: 628
thats a bit of a loaded question. it depends greatly on how much timing your going to run and how much cylinder pressure your building. the spool bus's and tim's cars run well over 1200/1500 hp and the studs seem to be holding. seans car ran up to about 1200 hp and he stretched the back 2 bolts at the oil tank. it was a measurable stretch that he found. obviously he was running some big boost and advanced timing to do this. after getting some info from sean i can see why he wants to go to 12mm and torque to over 100 ft/lbs vs the 60 ft/lbs . he feels the racewear are solid to 900 hp but over that he will go bigger on the studs.
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