Kirby's would be a lot faster if he took out 60 pounds worth of toe hook HAHAHAH!

 

someone stole our toehooks....

 

I know man... James and I are such thieves, first half-dead 928 transmissions and now this!

Actually, we saw Jim the other day and he was saying that only a couple of weeks back he was at Akkurat's shop and that box was there with toe hooks, a 928 transmission, torque tube etc... As I told Deputy Dog.. he can have the one Mao made for me though. I never ended up using it since the 5mph bumpers still aren't on my car.

 

Apparently so! I wonder if my water injection kit is there under all the rubble

 

 

Hmmm... We already are running our XEDE on our 996 with no issues whatsoever. We've tested it on an 02 as well with no surprises. The reason why the Unichip didn't work for you was that it does a poor job in replicating the CAS and MAF signals. As a result, the factory ECU protested. The Unichip also lacked the software flexability to generate its own signals as a function of 2 or 3 other inputs. This means that you were left with absolutely no control over important functions like open/closed loop fuel control. Nor could you configure a knock correction map to work in conjuction with the factory knock control (afterall, a higher output turbo/sc application will demand different knock control logic than a stocks set-up). But then again, we are remapping the factory ECU as well (injector scaling, load ranges, rev limits, knock control ranges, etc,.) so I'm pretty sure we can get all the bases covered And BTW, the subaru ECU is a bit more complicated to remap than the Bosche ECU from what we've experienced so far.

Regards,
shiv

 

Ah cool. I didn't use Unichip on my car but we had to "undo" it from a few other cars. Seems like they did have a good map for the stock turbos. But once you changed that and went to other exhausts, headers, turbos blah blah... they weren't able to really cope. Maybe not enough dyno time and/or level of control.

I've had an STI and an EVO and played around with them. Nice cars but they do not have PSM which can be increadibly intrusive/destructive when messed with. You'll find that out too Not the most fun feature to try and program with/around!

 

The late model Motronic systems carry over 2700 maps to control. The models have become so complicated that the original program is written not by a person, rather another computer. There are not very many ECU in the industry that have that many maps then cross reference the maps.

This is where you run into issues with piggy backing. Issues do not come up in the lower power ranges. Most will throw a Torque differential code when introduced with piggy back system. This is a communication error and often if not every time will throw the throttle body down. Once again the car has to many maps to overcome.

 

So the map is a little less complex for those of us without PSM? Cool!

 

congrats!! i assume you got the EVO? can't wait to get mine installed, WOOT WOOOT!

 

Sorry I'm entering late into this discussion (had a long/busy work week)*** (I know a couple of people are saying "oh no, here we go again... " BUT.....
.....deputydog95, I want to start off by saying "THANK YOU" for taking the time to post those great pictures & unbias account of both kits for us/me. Having someone who's unbias actually test ride in the two back to back is by far the most accurate account of "seat of the pants" performance (of which i want AS MUCH of it as possible when spending $13k!)
....secondly, (and i reiterate) the outcome of your test ride was a NO BRAINER to me as you have to be an imbecile not to see/realize how much faster the TPC (roots) SC is than a EVO (centri) one just by looking at the various dynos charts and more important UNDERSTANDING how the two work. Let's me put it into "lamen" terms for the people on here that STILL don't get it.......

** WHOEVER GETS TO 6PSI (MAX BOOST) FIRST WINS !!!!! ** LOL

With roots-style SC, you get it ALL (max psi) from as low as 2600-2800rpms -thru- redline** A LA TURBO (only no lag )

With centrifugal, you get little to nothing down low and only hit peak boost (the 6psi max.) AT REDLINE. Meaning at best, AT REDLINE (or near it) for a fraction of a second your only matching the power of the TPC kit before dropping major psi again with the inevitable gear change.

 

Ahhhahahahaha, you have got to be kidding me!!! Now your saying "forget ALL the dyno charts, and forget what you have NOW FELT...you *** is lying to you deputydog, but 1999 isn't!!! Seriously 1999, your "races" and "accounts" of TPC kits are about as real as Pamela An's ****.

---Kevin

PS: "1999porsche911"...Don't think I've forgotten about our race either. If you can deal with waiting for me to afford it (the TPC kit). I'll double the stakes, race for titles and you...i mean...the loser has to wear g-string underwear (pink) while on broadway, NY** LOL.

 

Porschepdh and a few other made some truthful and interesting points about piggy-backs in general and 7th injector set-ups (a la 930's which porsche themselves had been using for years) The fact was, though crude (technically speaking) compared to the GIAC tuned EVO systems, its works! "Sometimes you have to take a step back to make forward progress." And thus far i haven't heard of a single 996 engine failure as a result of it. TPC's own prototype car has 25-30K SC'ed miles on it (many of those are hard track miles at summit point raceway and VIR) with no issues. Others, including the one you test rode in, experienced the same = no problems. Of course the TPC SC put more strain on the motor than the EVO, thats simply a function of MAKING MORE POWER throughout more of the powerband. Both kits will still allow long engine life and are pretty reliable. The fact of the matter is, for **$13,000** (installed)...my 996 has got beat a stage 2 X50 TT 911 or be on par with a GT2 TT (482HP)etc....otherwise it's simply not worth it SC'ing and I'd just leave it stock and save the money. TPC's showings make it well worth it IMO.

--- Kevin

Also, remember that TPC use the same SC (Eaton M90) as on the Mercedes Benz AMG E55...a supercharged & intercooled 5.5 LITER V8 ...my point, think of the kind of CFM's that blower is capable of and putting thru your 3.6L flat 6.

 

kevin d, not to nitpick but the mercedes e55 amg does not use an eaton supercharger. lower c230kompressors use that kind of eaton roots-type blower. don't get me wrong many applications have had great success with roots-type blowers.

the e55 instead uses a twin-screw lysholm type, made by IHI. the difference between the roots-type and twin-screw type is that the roots is external compression, whereas the twin-screw is internal compression. deputydog, this probably accounts for the difference in sound you heard between the two superchargers. variances between the adiabatic efficiency of the different chargers is perhaps something to note, as the design of the roots is not to internally compress air but to expedite it at a faster speed into the intake manifold where it becomes compressed. what i mean is the potential of higher temperatures, and heat soak. screw type has its drawbacks too, with the mounting position often does not enable effective intercooler upgrades (as is my case with supercharged AMG's). both the roots-type (eaton), and twin-screw type (IHI) are considered positive-displacement type charger versus the centrifugal type like vortech, so this is where there may be any confusion.

nonetheless, the TPC does seem like a powerful package, and one with which people are happy. if it were my 996 and my money, i would still go for the EVO charger due to my aforementioned reasons of the company and its customer support, power delivery, type of powerband produced, design of supercharger, etc. i think that the 996, as a light and agile car, with a quick revving and relatively smaller motor, would best be suited in character to an n/a platform...however n/a upgrades seem not to provide much power or ROI without rebuilding it from the ground up. relatively speaking, the centrifugal supercharger seems to most closely replicate the type of power delivery a tuned n/a motor would, out of all the supercharger type options. if i wanted massive and instant torque across a broad powerband, i'd buy a 996 turbo and send it out for a PSI Motorsport conversion

 

Actually the 930 (starting in late 74)even up through the 1994 3.6 turbo did not use any type of EFI or piggy back system. The 91 used a DME type ignition, but the injection was CIS which is a pressure based system. No 7th injector was used. It was based on system pressure then varied from control pressure on the WUR to increase or decrease pressure on the lower differential port to the head.