996 vs E46 M3? thoughts?
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Originally Posted by Smoltz
In what respect? If you compare total 996 sales in the USA to E46 M3 sales in the USA (BMW sold roughly 40k E46 M3s). I think you'd find the figures are pretty close. I realize that there are more years of production for the 996 and that Porsche is stingy with production info. Just because people drive their 996s less than M3s, it doens't make them rarer, it just means they have less mileage on them.
Also, I've seen some of your other threads on M3 vs 99x, I'm not trying to start a holy war here. I would take a 997, 996 GTx, 996 Turbo over the E46 M3 any day of the week, no thinking required. The NA 996 models are a different story, they have pros and cons when compared with the M3 even if you don't factor in price.
-Adam
edit: Some numbers to think about... let's say Porsche Sold 8k 996 turbos in the US. I think that's a pretty good guess, certainly within 25% of actual. Now let's say that they sold 3 996s for every turbo (from 01 - 04). That's 24k more, and we havent even covered 99 and 2000 (let's figure another 12k for both years) , nor have we included GT2s(700ish) and GT3s (1000ish). That totals 46k. I'm not saying that the Porsche isn't rarer, but what I am saying is that if it is, it isn't by a huge margin.
Also, I've seen some of your other threads on M3 vs 99x, I'm not trying to start a holy war here. I would take a 997, 996 GTx, 996 Turbo over the E46 M3 any day of the week, no thinking required. The NA 996 models are a different story, they have pros and cons when compared with the M3 even if you don't factor in price.
-Adam
edit: Some numbers to think about... let's say Porsche Sold 8k 996 turbos in the US. I think that's a pretty good guess, certainly within 25% of actual. Now let's say that they sold 3 996s for every turbo (from 01 - 04). That's 24k more, and we havent even covered 99 and 2000 (let's figure another 12k for both years) , nor have we included GT2s(700ish) and GT3s (1000ish). That totals 46k. I'm not saying that the Porsche isn't rarer, but what I am saying is that if it is, it isn't by a huge margin.
In terms of production numbers. you have to take into account that porsche make a (all 996 models mind you) C2, C2 cab, C4, C4 cab, C4S, C4S cab, Targa, GT2, GT3, TT, TTS. That makes 11 models. you are comparing one m3(you also did not include m3 cabs) model to 11 996 models. now thats not fair. compare one model to the m3. if you compare a C2 only to the m3 you will likely find that this(and any single 996 model) to be rarer than the m3 model.
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IIRC you also bashed the ****e out of M3s on E46fanatics...
I love the M3...and I think its more of a raucious, rowdy and deviant car then any non GT Porsche. I love my turbo soo much...but for knife-edged handeling and just plain fun...that includes some tire buring and oversteer...the M is just plane awesome...
But in the end it comes down to personal preference...
if you go M3, like others say, try for a 2003.5 or higher...the LEDS look awesome...
I love the M3...and I think its more of a raucious, rowdy and deviant car then any non GT Porsche. I love my turbo soo much...but for knife-edged handeling and just plain fun...that includes some tire buring and oversteer...the M is just plane awesome...
But in the end it comes down to personal preference...
if you go M3, like others say, try for a 2003.5 or higher...the LEDS look awesome...
Originally Posted by sechsgang
IIRC you also bashed the ****e out of M3s on E46fanatics...
I love the M3...and I think its more of a raucious, rowdy and deviant car then any non GT Porsche. I love my turbo soo much...but for knife-edged handeling and just plain fun...that includes some tire buring and oversteer...the M is just plane awesome...
But in the end it comes down to personal preference...
if you go M3, like others say, try for a 2003.5 or higher...the LEDS look awesome...
I love the M3...and I think its more of a raucious, rowdy and deviant car then any non GT Porsche. I love my turbo soo much...but for knife-edged handeling and just plain fun...that includes some tire buring and oversteer...the M is just plane awesome...
But in the end it comes down to personal preference...
if you go M3, like others say, try for a 2003.5 or higher...the LEDS look awesome...
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I like both cars and have actually been contemplating adding another car to the garage (a cabrio) and these 2 (99-01 996 and e46) are at the top of the list. I don't think that the difference in price is quite the $10k that you think it is. You can get M3's and 996's in the high $20's but they will have some miles on them. I would keep the C2 if I were you.
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Originally Posted by sechsgang
IIRC you also bashed the ****e out of M3s on E46fanatics...
I love the M3...and I think its more of a raucious, rowdy and deviant car then any non GT Porsche. I love my turbo soo much...but for knife-edged handeling and just plain fun...that includes some tire buring and oversteer...the M is just plane awesome...
But in the end it comes down to personal preference...
if you go M3, like others say, try for a 2003.5 or higher...the LEDS look awesome...
I love the M3...and I think its more of a raucious, rowdy and deviant car then any non GT Porsche. I love my turbo soo much...but for knife-edged handeling and just plain fun...that includes some tire buring and oversteer...the M is just plane awesome...
But in the end it comes down to personal preference...
if you go M3, like others say, try for a 2003.5 or higher...the LEDS look awesome...
Yea, when they get hostile over there, i get angry right back at them. but thats neither here nor there. i dont really go over 'there' anymore. i still say stick with the 996.
For knife-edged handling etc, the Porsche is the better car. It will outhandle an m3 any day of the week.
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If I Recall Correctly
and yes they do get kinda rowdy over there...but as far as overall handling is concerned, the LSD(limited slip diff) on the M makes a world of difference when used...properly...and sets it apart from the porsche...but the porsche has WAY better balance and tons more grip and as a overall car may be better...BUT...the M can absolutely hold its own with most 996s...short of a turbo anyway...
Also...the s54 is a BEAUTIFUL, high strung engine that LOVES to be revved...makes my turbo seem..."calm"...
and yes they do get kinda rowdy over there...but as far as overall handling is concerned, the LSD(limited slip diff) on the M makes a world of difference when used...properly...and sets it apart from the porsche...but the porsche has WAY better balance and tons more grip and as a overall car may be better...BUT...the M can absolutely hold its own with most 996s...short of a turbo anyway...
Also...the s54 is a BEAUTIFUL, high strung engine that LOVES to be revved...makes my turbo seem..."calm"...
Last edited by sechsgang; Sep 12, 2006 at 10:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by sechsgang
If I Recall Correctly
and yes they do get kinda rowdy over there...but as far as overall handling is concerned, the LSD(limited slip diff) on the M makes a world of difference when used...properly...and sets it apart from the porsche...but the porsche has WAY better balance and tons more grip and as a overall car may be better...BUT...the M can absolutely hold its own with most 996s...short of a turbo anyway...
Also...the s54 is a BEAUTIFUL, high strung engine that LOVES to be revved...makes my turbo seem..."calm"...
and yes they do get kinda rowdy over there...but as far as overall handling is concerned, the LSD(limited slip diff) on the M makes a world of difference when used...properly...and sets it apart from the porsche...but the porsche has WAY better balance and tons more grip and as a overall car may be better...BUT...the M can absolutely hold its own with most 996s...short of a turbo anyway...
Also...the s54 is a BEAUTIFUL, high strung engine that LOVES to be revved...makes my turbo seem..."calm"...
As far as comparing youre TT to an m3, they are different cars. the 996TT is very very fast and is a twin turbo engine. if you compare an m3 to a GT3(which is better comparing in terms of high revving nature), the GT3 makes the m3 look like a chuwawa. the GT3 is just so raw and visceral and the grip and power and flat tq it produces are all just amazing!
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I owned an '01 M3 and it is a great car. However, my CaymanS blows the M3 away in EVERY single category....speed, handling, fit and finish, etc. And as far as styling goes, to 95% of the general public the M3 looks like any other 3 series Bimmer. Not to me, but to most. I have always been a big BMW fan but here of late with the **** being Bagleized I really don't care for them from a styling standpoint. It would take me about three seconds to decide....I would get a 996 over an M3 any day of the week.
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Originally Posted by amerlemans
I owned an '01 M3 and it is a great car. However, my CaymanS blows the M3 away in EVERY single category....speed, handling, fit and finish, etc. And as far as styling goes, to 95% of the general public the M3 looks like any other 3 series Bimmer. Not to me, but to most. I have always been a big BMW fan but here of late with the **** being Bagleized I really don't care for them from a styling standpoint. It would take me about three seconds to decide....I would get a 996 over an M3 any day of the week.
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Originally Posted by PorscheC4
Dont get me wrong, i like m3s a lot, and if youve seen some of my other posts, i almost bought one. I just find that compared to a 996(of any kind) they are not as thrilling. i feel like i am in my own self centered world in my 911, the m3 gives no such feeling to me, plus a lot of other things i think it lacks, but that is me. I would NEVER EVER trade a boxster s and up in models for an m3. thats just me. not worth it in my oppinion.
In terms of production numbers. you have to take into account that porsche make a (all 996 models mind you) C2, C2 cab, C4, C4 cab, C4S, C4S cab, Targa, GT2, GT3, TT, TTS. That makes 11 models. you are comparing one m3(you also did not include m3 cabs) model to 11 996 models. now thats not fair. compare one model to the m3. if you compare a C2 only to the m3 you will likely find that this(and any single 996 model) to be rarer than the m3 model.
In terms of production numbers. you have to take into account that porsche make a (all 996 models mind you) C2, C2 cab, C4, C4 cab, C4S, C4S cab, Targa, GT2, GT3, TT, TTS. That makes 11 models. you are comparing one m3(you also did not include m3 cabs) model to 11 996 models. now thats not fair. compare one model to the m3. if you compare a C2 only to the m3 you will likely find that this(and any single 996 model) to be rarer than the m3 model.
This was your statement 'everyone and their mom, aunt, and sister have an m3, at least Porsches are rare.'
That statement is simply wrong.
Yor revised statment, I agree with for the most part.
However, the 40k number for the M3 INCLUDES cabs. True, if we compared C2 coupe sales to M3 coupe sales there are in all probability more M3s sold in the USA. But C2/C4/GT3 look the same to most people. Arguably the M3 looks like a regular 3 series coupe to most pepole as well, so go figure.
-Adam
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Originally Posted by amerlemans
I owned an '01 M3 and it is a great car. However, my CaymanS blows the M3 away in EVERY single category....speed, handling, fit and finish, etc. And as far as styling goes, to 95% of the general public the M3 looks like any other 3 series Bimmer. Not to me, but to most. I have always been a big BMW fan but here of late with the **** being Bagleized I really don't care for them from a styling standpoint. It would take me about three seconds to decide....I would get a 996 over an M3 any day of the week.
-Adam
edit: I should clarify, it would be a tough choice for me if I had a choice between a 3.4L C2 / 4S and an M3 if money was no object, but money is always a part of the equation.
Last edited by Smoltz; Sep 12, 2006 at 10:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Smoltz
Your changing your tune now.
This was your statement 'everyone and their mom, aunt, and sister have an m3, at least Porsches are rare.'
That statement is simply wrong.
Yor revised statment, I agree with for the most part.
However, the 40k number for the M3 INCLUDES cabs. True, if we compared C2 coupe sales to M3 coupe sales there are in all probability more M3s sold in the USA. But C2/C4/GT3 look the same to most people. Arguably the M3 looks like a regular 3 series coupe to most pepole as well, so go figure.
-Adam
This was your statement 'everyone and their mom, aunt, and sister have an m3, at least Porsches are rare.'
That statement is simply wrong.
Yor revised statment, I agree with for the most part.
However, the 40k number for the M3 INCLUDES cabs. True, if we compared C2 coupe sales to M3 coupe sales there are in all probability more M3s sold in the USA. But C2/C4/GT3 look the same to most people. Arguably the M3 looks like a regular 3 series coupe to most pepole as well, so go figure.
-Adam
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Originally Posted by Smoltz
Have you owned a 996? Which model. I'm curious. I would take a Cayman S over a 996 (non GT2/3/Turbo) or an M3 but I would still take the M3 over the 996. The Cayman S is an amazing car.
-Adam
edit: I should clarify, it would be a tough choice for me if I had a choice between a 3.4L C2 / 4S and an M3 if money was no object, but money is always a part of the equation.
-Adam
edit: I should clarify, it would be a tough choice for me if I had a choice between a 3.4L C2 / 4S and an M3 if money was no object, but money is always a part of the equation.
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Originally Posted by PorscheC4
Im not trying to argue, just discussing. The comment that everyone has one, that reflects my oppinion of what I see where I live. Yes, people who dont know cars prob think an m3 is a 3 series, and people who dont know cars might confuse some of the 911s, just as people who dont know cars think a 360 modena is a 430.
I'm just curious, I think the 996 cab is a FAR better car than the M3 cab, with the coupes, I really think its close, but the cabs, no comparison the 996 is WAY better.
-Adam