Doug,

Not wanting to get into a who's a better tuner war, and RUF's excellence is obvious, but I recall your initial post of GIAC is that it feels not much different from stock?

If so, this contradicts many others here with GIAC tune and may be the reason why you think RUF is better. I have a Flash Loader and could switch between stock and GIAC, if you can't feel a huge difference, there is something VERY wrong. I have fairly extensive time with both EVOMS and GIAC, in sport mode the power delivery is very similar between EVOMS and GIAC and the difference between tune and stock so obvious I could tell with my eyes closed.
In other words, I think there was something not right about your comparison, and unless proven by V Box or dyno, you simply can't use that as a basis for comparison between GIAC and RUF.

A stage 2 is a canned simple software program. I do not think, in the end, that there could be THAT much difference between tuners.

 

Any vendors besides GIAC offer program switching?

 

Can, I don't think I know it's a better tune than the GIAC on my car. The Ruf breaks the tires loose with ease and still does, especially at the track. My initial take on the GIAC was that it felt very strong, it was after a period of time that it felt stock like. I think for some reason or another the stock ecu relearned the the tune. GIAC was no help in the matter.

 

APR is the other one, but I don't think APR has program for GT2. There is something odd about APR programming though IIRC. I think somehow they got rid of the sport button function and the boost, at least as seen on dashboard, maxes out at 1 instead of 1.2.

BTW, I would suggest anyone who likes to tune cars to consider programs that allow one to switch back to stock. For example in a car with so much power like the Turbo, at times I feel the control in corners is better with stock programming. That extra horsepower has to go somewhere, and where it goes may not be good for cornering. A tuned program will obviously have more power, but IMHO smoothness and linearity of stock program are taken away at the same time -- all that extra horsepower has to go somewhere LOL.

It's fun and quite an education to switch back and forth. For one, you could tell immediately if the program is worth it and if not, return for full refund. This is GIAC's way of daring you to find out if they are not up to the task.

 

Yes. But whoever is telling you that is the way to go is leading you down the wrong path.....

 

Yes again please don't take this the wrong way as I don't mean to be critical of RUF at all. Its gold standard quality is acknowledged.

That said, what you felt is the OPPOSITE of the way it should be. The ECU adapts and I've been told (have no proof otherwise) that after a certain time period, it actually becomes more powerful.

From the standpoint of finding out what's going on, it's too bad that you didn't have the Flash-loader to switch back and forth at the time. (If you switch and don't feel a difference, something is very very wrong. Even at stage II, the GIAC tune in sport mode makes the car feels like it's starting to ice-skate on the road. )

 

Doug...the reason I called on 911TurboS2 to post his dyno is 3 reasons:

1. He claimed he just did an engine dyno. As you know, there are only a handful of places here in the states that can do it properly...since most of us use chassis dyno, I thought it would be interesting to see how he had his engine pulled and dynoed.

2. His engine dyno at 611 crank HP is inconsistent with other dynos of 550 conversions...the engines are built the same as the 550 RTurbo...specs and parts are exactly the same.

3. And then we have comments like those made in this thread:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-vs-gt700.html

So...the AWE700 package is faster in the standing mile than the RT12.

And we know the RT12 can ***** slap the RTurbo 550 faster than you can type youtube:



So, now...his RTurbo 550 "is much, much faster" than his old AWE700?

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE my Ruf conversion. For the price I paid, I got a one stop shop with incredibly well done integration, suspension, wheels, body parts, tuning. In Wisconsin, my choices of tuners for all in one work is limited, and Ruf came through.

That being said...it would be nice if he/she brought evidence into this thread...if 911TurboS2 has dynos to show...I think we'd all love to see them...because here's how the 550 conversion runs on a Mustang...

 

So to the original post poster, I apologize for hijacking the thread...IMHO, if you want the fastest, most powerful tuning packages, go with a US tuner...although I really love my Ruf conversion.

 

I'm not here to support GIAC. Believe me! But... I think your ECU (brain) may have relearned what it thinks a stock 'tune' feels like. I know mine sure did. Wanna buy some freshly rebuilt GT28's? I need GT30s.

 

Can, I know where you're coming from but the giac flash just didn't work for me. And their lack of customer support was just awesome. Conversely, the 550 conversion feels as you describe stronger than ever, in fact I just drove it and it's a monster!
So enuff of this back to the original topic.

 

TT Gasman, what exactly does RUF do to the motors to make it seem much more powerful than what the numbers state?

 

Did you just ask me to move on and then fire another shot?
I don't doubt for a moment your satisfaction with RUF; it's a top-notch company. But... I have some difficulty if you are going to bring in butt dyno as proof of superiority to another company. As others have mentioned repeatedly in this thread: Claim needs real evidence.This holds especially true for claim such as "RUF has more torque than brand X"!

BTW, the "perfect" pretty looking dyno from RUF's web site does not count as evidence. And neither does "my car feels stronger than ever." I am sure you would agree only the actual car's dyno, done with same system and settings, or V Box data, are worth more than 2 cents.

Lastly I would not have mentioned anything except for the fact that I find your experience with GIAC to be unlike 99% of other 997 Turbo owners with the same tune. These are competent engineers and their blood and sweat are in their work; let's be careful with the assertions.

 

If his GIAC program was too aggressive it may have tripped the ECU into a limp mode. The unfortunate thing is that they wouldn't/couldn't/didn't sort it....

 

Can, you're not gonna let go of this are you?? Who appointed you to decide what counts as evidence?? Is this some kind of half assed courtroom? Those "pretty dynos" are copies of the engine dynos from Germany, which is more than good enough for me. I'm sure Ruf will be happy to put you in contact with their R&D staff to answer your questions. If you look at the "pretty" giac chassis dynos ( sadly, they don't have/use an engine dyno) the tq difference is obvious. This is backed up by my experience with the car at the track, compared to the prior giac- this is real world experience not internet masturbation.
Last, let me just say this, I am very surprised at your responses. I have always been open and honest providing help to you in PMs.

 

Doug -

You're right. Forget the dynos. Far too many variables either way. How about just submitting some 60-130 files from your 550 instead? That will tell us everything we need to know.

For comparison to some cars near your power range; a stock 997TT has gone 9.5, a stock 997 GT2 has gone 7.6 and Eclou went 6.99 in his AWE 700 car. Let's see where your car is at.

If you don't own a V box, I know of at least 5 guys in Houston that do. So getting you one would be extremely easy.

This is a genuine request for some data that would be very helpful to a lot of people. It's also your chance to prove how exactly how fast your car is to some of us doubters. What do you think?