Hey
Why don't you guys come down to the 2011 Supra Nats?
Happy Holidays
Robert

 

I have a better idea why dont all the "Tuners" regardless how big or small, with these 1/4 mile drag and dyno queens come down to the 2011 GTGP ( date coming soon) and then they can prove what they have.

We can argue till we are blue in the face about drag times and dyno numbers in the end it is NOT a fair evaluation of a cars performance.



All the big tuners in Europe attend and compete in the Tuner Grand Prix at the Ring..
Why because they can showcase the power as well as the true potential of there cars. Useable road cars that can be driven every day.


Thats why the Global Tuner Grand Prix was founded in North America.

1 weeked bring out all you have, bring your fastest cars and best drivers.
Big tuners, small shops, amatuers and pro's.
1 Weekend to prove what you have ...World Wide Bragging rights for an entire year.
Prove your worth in front of the world wide press and fans from across the country.
The 2011 event is scheduled for the fall of 2011 , this will be an annual event and will only grow as time goes on.


You will all have a year to prepare for it.. No more excuses..

Let the car building begin and the key board tuning stop!




If you want to equalize the playing field have one pro driver do all the driving plain and simple.

 

I agree, having a fast car is easy, anyone can build a car to be fast in the 1/4 mile for 9-11 seconds. A world class tuner/builder can build a car that will last a road course and not fall apart or blow up. When it's all said and done Porsche is a road course car, not a drag car, Ferdinand is rolling in his grave

 

Completely agree with you and Fabryce. I don't know who or how many Porsche owners or 6Speeders buy their cars for the 1/4 mile, or care about the 1/4 mile, but I sure didn't. And the dyno is an interesting standalone test when one is doing basic engine analysis but it really doesn't tell much of anything about how that car will run on the track.
A Porsche is special because of it's abilities on the back roads, on the track or the feel that it provides to the driver that a hemi-'Cuda with a shot or two of nitro simply can't.
OTOH, having two drivers in two cars banging fenders around VIR won't tell us much of anything either, since it will be more about the relative position at the start on a given track, the drivers skills, and the willingness to bang up some poor customers cars.
At the end of the day, if this happens at all, it will have to be a pure 'run what you brung' contest. We'll never really know if these are solely off the shelf mods (are we going to have the cars, the parts and the ECU's inspected after the runs?) or whether they are ticking time bombs with one-of-a-kind parts and tunes that we wouldn't or couldn't ever buy?
But no matter, this grudge match is what makes cars, racing and driving great. It's not going to be, or meant to be PC. These two companies have a lot on the line with the outcome affecting their businesses and their reputation for some time. All the more reason why it's unlikely to happen or why the outcome will be suspect if it does.
But even now and up to and after we know more, it does and will offer us all a fresh view of who we'd rather be doing business with when we part with some big bucks to enhance our cars.

 

Here's what to do, both tuners send their engines out to an independent shop with a real engine dyno. These numbers can't be questioned or manipulated like a chassis dyno.

 

In theory it sounds like a terrific event, however from everything that we read, it seems like the driver with the fastest lap time didn't even win. hmmmmmmm


Good Job Mobonic

 

Dyno and Drag Strip??? That is fine but on track or road performance is what really matters. I do not remember Dr. Porsche at a drag strip testing his cars. Add some track comparos like VIR or Sebring and then we will see the true leader. It is a no brainer for me since I know first hand what Milke and his crew at TPC can do to develop a balanced package of power, handling and braking.

Cheers,
Dr. John

 

A Dyno is VERY important. For ANYONE. Power curve means everything, even on the road course. I'd bet money the top Road Racing teams/individuals spend more time Dyno tuning than anyone else. Because they want to maximize that power curve. No one wants a laggy car that blasts off unexpectedly making it hard to control in the turns. The educated consumer will look at the power curve and not peak hp and that will tell them which Turbo is better (assuming they make in the same range of hp).

And let's face it, these guys are trying to sell products, and both are adding upgraded turbos, the guys that usually buy these turbos aren't doing so because they love to road race. They want to see which one pulls the hardest. On the road course, it's setup and driver preference that can separate to evenly matched cars, everything else is all POWAH!!!! (except for E.T. on the drag strip, but the Trap Speed is).

Gaining 300 rpm of spool on the competitor could mean one vendor sells one part (turbo's), while a faster lap time means the other vendor sells another one (sway bars,coilovers, etc). Having as many venues as possible makes it a win win for both tuners, they don't have to win everything, just something.

Not to mention, they've fallen very silent, so we are likely wasting our time anyways because it's not gonna happen.

 

Totally agree HC, these guys need to strap their motors on an engine dyno and be done with it.

 

Porsche (as well as every other sports car manufacturer on the planet) tests all of their cars from 0-60, and most manufacturers also include 0-100 km/h and 1/4 mile times. All of these tests are 'dragstrip' type events...used to measure straight-line performance for direct comparison to other cars. Of course, all of the US and European print and online magazines include similar tests in their performance reviews, so these types of tests are pretty standard these days regardless of the medium.

Straight-line performance certainly isn't an all-encompassing aspect of performance, but in addition to road-course testing, figure 8, skidpad and braking events, it definitely helps to capture the total performance capabilities of an automobile.

For the TPC vs Champion event, I'd like to see a combination of road-course testing, straight-line events and chassis dyno runs from an independent operator (I don't care much for engine dynos...since what you get to the ground is all that matters).

 

The beauty of the engine dyno, it cuts out all the bs. The chassis dyno, while a great tuning tool, is too easy to manipulate. Same with the track testing, great in theory, just too many variables. Variables= excuses. Something tells me this "challenge" will never happen and is bound for the annals of bench racing...

 

Agreed. There is no doubt that the engine dyno is the most accurate for tuning, and absolutely critical to fine tuning that last few hp of a component change, but it is not the ends all and be all in determining the "better" tune.

For example, if engine A dynos at 550 peak hp, but torque peaks at 5000 rpm, and engine B has less peak hp of 520, but torque peaks at 3000 rpm to a higher value. Who is to say which car is faster on a road course, or in a drag race? Who is to say which engine is better in real world conditions, with real cooling by "real" blowing air through the intercooler, real loads? A simple number won't tell you the whole story. As HC might have mentioned above, the SHAPES of the torque/power curve matter just as much, and to tell which one is better, road testing is the only way.

You need a road race and/or Vbox times to validate -- that is the bottom line. Manufacturers rely on road testing to confirm their engine dynos also.

 

I say screw it w/ the comparo b/w the cars. I say, we set up a 1/4 mile run for one of the shop guys from TPC and one of the shop guys from Champion to run on any local high school track and get this over with......

 

I agree with the comments to my post. I just wanted to highlight the point that since sport cars are designed to drive quickly on roads. The quicker, the better and therefore, whoever gets there the quickest has the best machine.

Dr. John

 

bingo heavychevy!

I'm sitting here with a wad of cash waiting to see which upgraded vtgs are gonna get the hardearned buckaroos spent on them. Sure, Dr. Porsche may not have cared about 1/4mile or 60-130 times but Dr. Bogg sure does.