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997 Turbo / GT2 20062012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

Area Under the Curve

 
  #16  
Old 06-22-2011, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoolnV8 View Post
MBailey... what kind of WHP does your 911 make on Pump gas?
I dont know for sure because I never dynoed her. Somewhere around 600 depending on which dyno would be a rough estimate.
 
  #17  
Old 06-22-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MBailey View Post
I dont know for sure because I never dynoed her. Somewhere around 600 depending on which dyno would be a rough estimate.
It's amazing you can get mid-5s for 60-130 with "only" 600whp pump. Presumably your 5.5 was on racegas? Any idea what your best time is on pump gas?
 
  #18  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
It's amazing you can get mid-5s for 60-130 with "only" 600whp pump. Presumably your 5.5 was on racegas? Any idea what your best time is on pump gas?
Yes, the 5.5 was on race gas. The car runs easily repeatable sub 6s on race. I have never tried with the current setup on pump. I would estimate it would be around 6.3-6.4s.
 
  #19  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:35 AM
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this thread is so sexy it hurts

 
  #20  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eclou View Post
this thread is so sexy it hurts

ROFL...
 
  #21  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:40 AM
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this is a great graphical demonstration on how the theory of the VTG's have not proven to be a game changer in the practical application - conventional turbos with new vane geometries working within their efficiency islands are still superior
 
  #22  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:46 AM
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Yeah, I was thinking about this too. Seems like the vtgs could be tweaked some more or perhaps better vane modulation would produce improvements? Or is this just a limitation in the inherent design?
 
  #23  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TTdude View Post
Yeah, I was thinking about this too. Seems like the vtgs could be tweaked some more or perhaps better vane modulation would produce improvements? Or is this just a limitation in the inherent design?
I think the VTG's are too slow to react. In lower gears - 2,3,4 there is still appreciable lag and no outside dyno has ever recreated the plot shown by Porsche with 500 ft lbs hitting at 2100 rpm. Most dynos are run in 3rd or 4th and I have never seen one with a sheer torque wall - all are a slope that rolls on at 3500-4000 rpms.

Now take the car in 6th gear, start at 1000 rpms and jam the pedal - the torque will hit at 2100 rpms. This is not seen in the other gears so Porsche did not lie, but the skyscraper of torque is not there for 90% of driving situations. The only ones getting their money's worth on the VTG's are the autobahn heroes dragging from 200-300 kph...
 
  #24  
Old 06-22-2011, 10:04 AM
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It's deceiving since the stock vtg's are definitely slow to respond, so much so, that I was disappointed so I upgraded to 63.5 mm vtgs a while back. For stock, it seemed more like a boost threshold issue but it's been a while. The upgraded vtgs performed significantly better, seemingly eliminated the stock problem. I thought these were great until I saw Mike's A28 data and man, those just take off. I remember comparing several gears and times with Mike's A28 to see if my vtgs would have an edge somewhere. Couldn't find one.
 
  #25  
Old 06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
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The stock car has been programmed to not allow full torque at lower rpms (I don't know the threshold). Todd at Proto told me this and the ecu tune upgrade from Proto does allow full torque at lower rpms and there is a significant boost in mid-range response with reduced lag. I'm currently getting the pbox data to compare stock car vs tuned car and then I'll add the data for upgraded vtg. So far the results show a big improvement with just the tune over the stock values.
 
  #26  
Old 06-22-2011, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by eclou View Post
this thread is so sexy it hurts

lol, I bet you've just been waiting to show that clip.
 
  #27  
Old 06-22-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MBailey View Post
Yes, the 5.5 was on race gas. The car runs easily repeatable sub 6s on race. I have never tried with the current setup on pump. I would estimate it would be around 6.3-6.4s.
Very impressive all around. Have you been in a vtg car? What is your subjective impression of boost response/lag with vtgs vs your a28? Just curious. On paper your a28s seem to have it all.
 
  #28  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Very impressive all around. Have you been in a vtg car? What is your subjective impression of boost response/lag with vtgs vs your a28? Just curious. On paper your a28s seem to have it all.
I have been in a VTG car but I did not get to drive so I cant really comment. I have been extremely happy with the A28s though.
 
  #29  
Old 06-22-2011, 04:30 PM
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IIRC, our R911 for the 997TT runs 5.5 60-130's on 93 octane. Also traps a little over 140mph.
 
  #30  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil Switzer View Post
IIRC, our R911 for the 997TT runs 5.5 60-130's on 93 octane. Also traps a little over 140mph.
That's impressive. Is the R911 package on pump gas the same thing as your P800 package?
 

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