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997 Turbo / GT2 20062012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

Area Under the Curve

 
  #61  
Old 06-25-2011, 10:28 PM
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Asher, This is really invaluable data to have and share. What struck me, is the whimpy 6.4% you get from that sport button which just about everyone says is a "must have" on these cars. The "must have" is getting a good tune. Most importantly--does your butt dyno agree with the curves-lol? Dave
 
  #62  
Old 06-26-2011, 04:10 AM
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Nice work with the graphs dave. Have been following the thread since you posted. Having the same proto tune as Asher i can only report that my butt dyno feels there is a difference between Normal and SC with Proto.
 
  #63  
Old 06-26-2011, 08:20 AM
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2 things change with sport mode on the stock car - a little extra oomph below 4k rpm and different throttle sensitivity which significantly reduces the feeling of lag imho. The Proto tune in stock (non-sport) mode has a throttle sensitivity half way between the stock regular and sport mode so there's a feeling of less lag as well as more power. With Proto sport mode the throttle map is a bit more sensitive than stock sport mode so it's a little bit twitchy for city driving but packs a serious almost lag-free punch. Basically, I think there is programmed throttle lag which is separate from turbo lag. These are not terribly laggy turbos! The slight throttle lag makes it easier to drive in the city without lurching.
 
  #64  
Old 06-26-2011, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TTdude View Post
Asher, This is really invaluable data to have and share. What struck me, is the whimpy 6.4% you get from that sport button which just about everyone says is a "must have" on these cars. The "must have" is getting a good tune. Most importantly--does your butt dyno agree with the curves-lol? Dave
I'd still say that sport button is worthwhile b/c of the midrange punch as well as the throttle sensitivity adjustment.

The butt dyno definitely agrees with the curves.

It's a sunny day today, I'll try to collect the last of the numbers.
 
  #65  
Old 06-27-2011, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bbywu View Post
It will be interesting to see if we can get more tuners involved - the AUC will eliminate many variables in comparing setups! (...and kudos to CMS for being first to step up to the plate.)
Sure thing. Email sent to TTDude just now with a complete datalog.

For referrence sake. The log is from a complete 68mm VTG upgraded 6-speed car, taken while doing a run on a Mustang 4WD dyno. This run was about 690 or so WHP at about 23 psi.

We're an open book here....the only info we protect is stuff that can be copied. Other then that, I have no problem sharing anything you guys ask for....but don't ask for my cupcake recipe..that's a secret!!
 
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  #66  
Old 06-27-2011, 03:36 PM
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Thanks Tom. I got the file. Just looking at it, I'm going to have to use VE instead of LOAD since you are not using Durametric and it's calculating load differently. I'll try to get this done sometime today but need to pay the bills first. Dave
 
  #67  
Old 06-27-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TTdude View Post
Thanks Tom. I got the file. Just looking at it, I'm going to have to use VE instead of LOAD since you are not using Durametric and it's calculating load differently. I'll try to get this done sometime today but need to pay the bills first. Dave
oops...sorry about that Dave. Believe it or not, there's not even a Durametric in this building...lol. We only have our couple of PIWIS's and our GIAC datalogger. I thought as long as those 3 parameters were in there, we'd be ok...sorry for the extra work
 
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  #68  
Old 06-27-2011, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
oops...sorry about that Dave. Believe it or not, there's not even a Durametric in this building...lol. We only have our couple of PIWIS's and our GIAC datalogger. I thought as long as those 3 parameters were in there, we'd be ok...sorry for the extra work
Not a problem. I just can't directly compare it with Bogg's or Milou's since they sent me logs with just Load, no MAFs. I can compare it with mine and Mike Bailey's.
 
  #69  
Old 06-27-2011, 06:11 PM
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Here you go Tom. Looking pretty good. My AUC for the same range is 742.

 
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Last edited by TTdude; 11-17-2013 at 11:16 AM.
  #70  
Old 06-27-2011, 07:19 PM
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niiiice result with the 68mm VTG!!!! I presume again that it's a 997tt hotside and not GT2 hotside and that it is with racegas. I must say that this is something I'm keeping my eye on since it can be used without external controllers etc......
 
  #71  
Old 06-27-2011, 10:42 PM
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Tom, Thanks again for sharing your data. There was note on your log that read "Important note: CMS uses modded MAFs in our kits so the MAFs kg/h and voltages given are rescaled for our tunes." Would you mind clarifying this because it's important that all the MAF readings are actual values for apples to apples comparisons. Dave
 
  #72  
Old 06-28-2011, 07:26 AM
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Interesting data with the 68mm VTGs!
They really have great pull up top, especially for a VTG.
Kudos to Champion!

I hope to be sending a new datalog next week. Todd Z has written a new file which hopefully will give me some extra power up top. We shall see...
 
  #73  
Old 06-28-2011, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TTdude View Post
Tom, Thanks again for sharing your data. There was note on your log that read "Important note: CMS uses modded MAFs in our kits so the MAFs kg/h and voltages given are rescaled for our tunes." Would you mind clarifying this because it's important that all the MAF readings are actual values for apples to apples comparisons. Dave
Oh...let me translate Louis' note there. OK..so basically on any of our 68mm VTG kits, we always use our carbon inlet pipes (they're required). With the combo of the two, we also use modified MAF housings to allow the MAF's to increase their range. The particular datalog we sent you was from a car that had the stock MAF housings in place so that you could make an apples to apples comparison to other cars. I hope that clarifies it a little...

Originally Posted by MBailey View Post
Interesting data with the 68mm VTGs!
They really have great pull up top, especially for a VTG.
Kudos to Champion!

I hope to be sending a new datalog next week. Todd Z has written a new file which hopefully will give me some extra power up top. We shall see...
Thanks MBailey. I'm tellin' you....you guys HAVE to feel how hard these VTG's pull! With essentially 200 less HP then other kits, they're SO much faster! Tial hit it out of the park when they did the final engineering on these. Keep in mind...we are actually holding these turbos back at this level. They have room for more.
 
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  #74  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:32 AM
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speaking of your VTGs...

when are you going to have updates of either of the two GT2s you were working on?
 
  #75  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by M5 Wheelman View Post
speaking of your VTGs...

when are you going to have updates of either of the two GT2s you were working on?
hmmm.....either?

Right now we've got one going on in the shop....the yellow 3.8L. It's moving along pretty nicely. We did get held up for a while because of some parts we were waiting on, as well as the fact that we were waiting for our new FDM machine to get set up (https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...re-carbon.html) so that we could make the carbon fiber intake manifolds....but we're back on schedule now. I hope to update that thread either later today or tomorrow with some details.

We also had the gray One Lap of America car that we build back in March....but that car's been back in the owners hands for a while now. He has it on the track probably 3-4 days per week and lovin' it.
 
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