Area Under the Curve
#106
06-30-2011, 08:19 AM
Former Vendor
hehe, it's cheaper for us to rent the Mustand AWD from the other shop. 
#107
06-30-2011, 09:07 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,666
Rep Power: 234 
You're right, that graph you posted is from a set of our 65mm Billet turbos we did on a GT2 a while back. The reason I posted the other graphs is because our dyno here at the shop is a dyno-jet, which requires us to remove the from driveshaft and run in 2WD. We don't really use it so much for publishing power results, but more as a tool for tuning. Our final tuning is usually done on the Mustang AWD dyno up at an independent shop called Horsepower Logic. Everyone used to scrutinize us so much when we posted 2WD dyno charts so I usually stick to the 4WD but I attached another one for you from the one of the recent 68mm upgrades we did. It shows 3 graphs, one for each of the GIAC modes... pump gas, race gas, and stock. The "stock" graph is not totally stock, it's just GIAC stock mode with our hardware installed.
As for the turbine housings themselves, we usually stick to whichever turbo came off the particular car we're working on. In other words, if we're working on a GT2, we use GT2 turbos. For a standard 997....997 Turbos. However, since we always have cores in stock we offer the GT2's as an upgrade to guys with standard 997's. Right now I've got about 5 sets of our turbos on the shelf so there's never a wait time.
As for the turbine housings themselves, we usually stick to whichever turbo came off the particular car we're working on. In other words, if we're working on a GT2, we use GT2 turbos. For a standard 997....997 Turbos. However, since we always have cores in stock we offer the GT2's as an upgrade to guys with standard 997's. Right now I've got about 5 sets of our turbos on the shelf so there's never a wait time.
Is the compressor side the same for the billet 68 997tt version and the GT2 version?
Ooooh, I like the sound of putting on a GT2 hotside. Any issues running that on a 997tt? A bit more lag maybe?
#108
06-30-2011, 09:34 AM
Former Vendor
Thanks for this graph (which is presumably for a 997tt?) - it shows much less difference b/w pump and racegas compared to the 65s.
Is the compressor side the same for the billet 68 997tt version and the GT2 version?
Ooooh, I like the sound of putting on a GT2 hotside. Any issues running that on a 997tt? A bit more lag maybe?
Is the compressor side the same for the billet 68 997tt version and the GT2 version?
Ooooh, I like the sound of putting on a GT2 hotside. Any issues running that on a 997tt? A bit more lag maybe?
Yes, this was from a recent 997TT build we did:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...8mm-goods.html
Keep in mind, our 65mm Billets don't require the use of our carbon inlet pipes. Plus with each new car we build, we really tailor the tunes to exactly what that customer is looking for in terms of drivability and final power. You'll notice on the recent 997TT we did, the customer wanted a max of about 650-660 HP on race gas, but knew that 99% of the time he would be using regular 93 octane pump gas. So we tuned it for his usage pattern. That explains why you may see slight variations between our race and pump files on different cars
The compressor side is the same, the only difference is the turbine side. We've done GT2 turbines on 997's a few times with no ill side effects.
#109
06-30-2011, 09:57 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
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Would the Sachs 764 clutch be able to handle the 68mm with GT2 hotside on PUMP gas? I know from your other thread you had clutch slipping but I think it was on racegas.
#110
06-30-2011, 10:09 AM
Former Vendor
It *might*...but you'd be living right on the edge. It's not worth taking the chance. In our experience the 764 starts to slip exactly where Sachs says it will....at 650 lb/ft tq.
#111
06-30-2011, 12:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
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I knew there was a reason for my confusion. In the GT2 68mm thread I asked if the dyno results showing 725whp on pump gas were from a 997tt or a GT2:
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Tom@Champion
But, on the standard pump file, the 6 speed car made 725 awhp.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I presume that was the standard pump file with standard (91-93octane) pump gas, right? Damn, that's impressive if that's the case.
edit: are you referring to the 997tt or the GT2 here?
Tom:
I don't want to hijack this thread but one last question: is the 725whp on pump for GT2 68mm turbos or 997tt 68mm turbos? Maybe these are the Dynojet rather than the Mustang numbers? Sheesh, now I understand why the cynical members don't worry too much about the dyno numbers but would rather see the performance numbers.
<!-- / message -->
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Tom@Champion
But, on the standard pump file, the 6 speed car made 725 awhp.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I presume that was the standard pump file with standard (91-93octane) pump gas, right? Damn, that's impressive if that's the case.
edit: are you referring to the 997tt or the GT2 here?
Tom:
That was 93 octane on the standard pump file...23psi, but keep in mind, that was our 6 speed 997TT car. The tiptronic cars put down less.
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#113
06-30-2011, 01:38 PM
Former Vendor
I knew there was a reason for my confusion. In the GT2 68mm thread I asked if the dyno results showing 725whp on pump gas were from a 997tt or a GT2:
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Tom@Champion
But, on the standard pump file, the 6 speed car made 725 awhp.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Tom@Champion
But, on the standard pump file, the 6 speed car made 725 awhp.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
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Also keep in mind that was OUR car...and we learned the consquences of running that much power (i.e. bent rods) on that car. That's why we limit our customer packages to 675, unless we build the motor.
#114
06-30-2011, 01:42 PM
Just seems like a lot of people have questions for you, and you almost always respond with interesting stuff.
#116
07-06-2011, 02:05 PM
I need to just sort out the gearing on the tiptronic as to which to be in. That 6.1 was with 2 shifts and I am short shifting to be gentle on the engine.
I will get some logs in the next day or so.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, 6.1 will be the fastest 996 TT AWD Tip. And she will run much faster once we ramp the boost.
Ken
User range
Speed(mph) Time(s)
60-130 06.1
60-100 02.9
0-100-0 ----
Misc
Vmax 138.6mph
Last edited by 996ttalot; 07-06-2011 at 02:10 PM.
#117
07-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Just a quick update - running the car today on half throttle she did a 6.1 second 60-130mph without any issues. That included a 5.2 100-200kph.
I need to just sort out the gearing on the tiptronic as to which to be in. That 6.1 was with 2 shifts and I am short shifting to be gentle on the engine.
I will get some logs in the next day or so.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, 6.1 will be the fastest 996 TT AWD Tip. And she will run much faster once we ramp the boost.
Ken
User range
Speed(mph) Time(s)
60-130 06.1
60-100 02.9
0-100-0 ----
Misc
Vmax 138.6mph
I need to just sort out the gearing on the tiptronic as to which to be in. That 6.1 was with 2 shifts and I am short shifting to be gentle on the engine.
I will get some logs in the next day or so.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, 6.1 will be the fastest 996 TT AWD Tip. And she will run much faster once we ramp the boost.
Ken
User range
Speed(mph) Time(s)
60-130 06.1
60-100 02.9
0-100-0 ----
Misc
Vmax 138.6mph
#120
07-07-2011, 05:51 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,666
Rep Power: 234 Just a quick update - running the car today on half throttle she did a 6.1 second 60-130mph without any issues. That included a 5.2 100-200kph.
I need to just sort out the gearing on the tiptronic as to which to be in. That 6.1 was with 2 shifts and I am short shifting to be gentle on the engine.
I will get some logs in the next day or so.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, 6.1 will be the fastest 996 TT AWD Tip. And she will run much faster once we ramp the boost.
Ken
User range
Speed(mph) Time(s)
60-130 06.1
60-100 02.9
0-100-0 ----
Misc
Vmax 138.6mph
I need to just sort out the gearing on the tiptronic as to which to be in. That 6.1 was with 2 shifts and I am short shifting to be gentle on the engine.
I will get some logs in the next day or so.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, 6.1 will be the fastest 996 TT AWD Tip. And she will run much faster once we ramp the boost.
Ken
User range
Speed(mph) Time(s)
60-130 06.1
60-100 02.9
0-100-0 ----
Misc
Vmax 138.6mph
Nice work! What technique did you use? e.g. did you start at 55mph and then stomp on it?