Area Under the Curve
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^^ Agreed 100%. Options are a good thing. True...you could put that package together for that price, but that package could not compete with what we offer from a performance standpoint. There's just too many parts missing....headers, better IC's, y-pipe, plenum/TB.
To do it apples to apples from a performance perspective, you'd have to compare ours to a GT30-based kit. Then the gap in pricing certainly goes away....in fact we'd have the advantage on pricing there. And to top it all off...you're still getting a higher level of performance from our 68's. Sorry if I sound a little ****y...but I'm REALLY proud of what we've accomplished with these turbos. I mean, such a high level of performance from a 100% VTG-based and entirely bolt-on power kit is just amazing IMO.
To do it apples to apples from a performance perspective, you'd have to compare ours to a GT30-based kit. Then the gap in pricing certainly goes away....in fact we'd have the advantage on pricing there. And to top it all off...you're still getting a higher level of performance from our 68's. Sorry if I sound a little ****y...but I'm REALLY proud of what we've accomplished with these turbos. I mean, such a high level of performance from a 100% VTG-based and entirely bolt-on power kit is just amazing IMO.
Now....let's get back on topic. Let's see some more graphs. I'm starting to grasp this whole concept a little better now, and I think it will be cool to start drawing direct comparisons between the AUC and actual performance, like 60-130...etc. Thanks again for putting it all together.
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Dave,
does the shape of the AUC graph necessarily follow the shape of the dyno curve? The units are obviously not hp and tq but I presume that it's the tq curve (or surrogate marker) that gives you the values to plot the AUC graph?
does the shape of the AUC graph necessarily follow the shape of the dyno curve? The units are obviously not hp and tq but I presume that it's the tq curve (or surrogate marker) that gives you the values to plot the AUC graph?
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Tom, would you have the data to give to Dave to plot the curve on pump gas with the 68 setup? I can't find the damn dyno plots right now but I recall that the graph you showed previously demonstrated a large dropoff with pump gas above 4k rpm (like it would with pretty well any setup I think compared to race gas).
Tom, would you have the data to give to Dave to plot the curve on pump gas with the 68 setup? I can't find the damn dyno plots right now but I recall that the graph you showed previously demonstrated a large dropoff with pump gas above 4k rpm (like it would with pretty well any setup I think compared to race gas).
Here's both dyno graphs...for comparison. I'll try to see if I can dig up a run on pump gas, in case there's not direct correlation. There's not much of a difference in power, because the turbos are being held back...with pump or race gas.
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Totally agree Tom, apples to oranges which is why I don't understand the specific reference to another tuner except perhaps to incite something. Your AUC curve justifies your fast times that for sure. And I didn't even measure it out to 7200 which is about where you would be at 130 mph. As for pricing, you'd have to check with Proto for exact numbers but here was my thinking. Tune is $3K, .2ICs $1K, clutch $2K, turbos $2K that adds up to $8K in parts, then another $2K for install for a total of $10K. This will get you below 7s, 60-130. Not bad, but I agree your package is also a great value and you get a whole lot of performance. It's good to have all these terrific options. PS I forgot to add in the exhaust but the main point is different strokes for different folks.
As for pricing, you'd have to check with Proto for exact numbers but here was my thinking. Tune is $3K, .2ICs $1K, clutch $2K, turbos $2K that adds up to $8K in parts, then another $2K for install for a total of $10K. This will get you below 7s, 60-130. Not bad, but I agree your package is also a great value and you get a whole lot of performance. It's good to have all these terrific options. PS I forgot to add in the exhaust but the main point is different strokes for different folks.
..certainly wasn't trying to incite anything. Personally I think Todd is a great tuner and runs his buisness top notch. I PROMISE everybody to have P-box #'s by Monday...
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I'd really like to see numbers on pump gas if you could... If you can get under 6 sec 60-130 on pump gas then I know what my next turbo upgrade is (although it won't be soon!)
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Sorry, I misinterpreted what you wrote. I'm glad your excited about your mods--you have an extremely fast car based on that AUC. Is yours a 6speed?
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Wouldn't MINITAB work as well?
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Tom, this was the graph I was thinking of. I realize now it's for the 65mm GT2 version, if you have the same graph for the 997tt version of the 68 please post it. Is there a difference on the compressor side for the GT2 version vs the 997tt version of the 68 or 65 billet turbo? I understand that the turbine (hot) side is different for GT2 vs 997tt. BTW, thanks for all the info. I've been meaning to rep you for it and finally did.
As for the turbine housings themselves, we usually stick to whichever turbo came off the particular car we're working on. In other words, if we're working on a GT2, we use GT2 turbos. For a standard 997....997 Turbos. However, since we always have cores in stock we offer the GT2's as an upgrade to guys with standard 997's. Right now I've got about 5 sets of our turbos on the shelf so there's never a wait time.
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Time to upgrade your dynojet to 424xLKc2
You're right, that graph you posted is from a set of our 65mm Billet turbos we did on a GT2 a while back. The reason I posted the other graphs is because our dyno here at the shop is a dyno-jet, which requires us to remove the from driveshaft and run in 2WD. We don't really use it so much for publishing power results, but more as a tool for tuning. Our final tuning is usually done on the Mustang AWD dyno up at an independent shop called Horsepower Logic. Everyone used to scrutinize us so much when we posted 2WD dyno charts so I usually stick to the 4WD but I attached another one for you from the one of the recent 68mm upgrades we did. It shows 3 graphs, one for each of the GIAC modes... pump gas, race gas, and stock. The "stock" graph is not totally stock, it's just GIAC stock mode with our hardware installed.
As for the turbine housings themselves, we usually stick to whichever turbo came off the particular car we're working on. In other words, if we're working on a GT2, we use GT2 turbos. For a standard 997....997 Turbos. However, since we always have cores in stock we offer the GT2's as an upgrade to guys with standard 997's. Right now I've got about 5 sets of our turbos on the shelf so there's never a wait time.
As for the turbine housings themselves, we usually stick to whichever turbo came off the particular car we're working on. In other words, if we're working on a GT2, we use GT2 turbos. For a standard 997....997 Turbos. However, since we always have cores in stock we offer the GT2's as an upgrade to guys with standard 997's. Right now I've got about 5 sets of our turbos on the shelf so there's never a wait time.