This thread is informative and entertaining. So, it does sound like a garbage truck in the typical cold start? Guaranteed to annoy the neighbors on the early morning commute? (I read someone's review that said exactly that).

I will absolutely agree that fit is a concern. I haven't read about a lot of fit issues with any of these $4k exhausts and I've read a lot of posts. Finish? Well, some people like to look at exhausts in the boxes I guess. Quality of the welds? Who cares? Really. I've also read posts on this forum for years and have never read one about the welds failing on an aftermarket exhaust and the exhaust falling apart. Is it shiny? I really don't care - the only thing I see are the tips!!! Seriously.

Performance. I liked the earlier post that suggested they all pretty much sound the same. Well, performance is related to flow. If you have less restriction (louder) and run cat-less, you are going to get more HP, at least top end HP. Can you have max performance with a quiet exhaust? I guess there are nuances, but I doubt if the mufflers are more restrictive you will get more flow.

Like others I really question the P tax factor on these exhausts. I thought cats were the driving factor of cost, but you go on the EJS site and see that the cats are only $700! Obviously this is about the limited number of possible P car sales, which require a significant margin to pay for R&D (if there is some). I guess we should be happy there are a lot of alternatives. Agree with the Tubi guy - turbos have lousy exhaust sound, AM exhausts only make it a bit better.

 

I don't believe in this review but here is one

http://apicdn.viglink.com/api/click?...rum-139-2.html

 

Again? there is only one exhaust, other vendors should focus on something else

 

....well I don't blame you for not advocating Tubi but like it or not Tom there is always a best established at one point. Swimmers, tennis players, shoes, suits watches so on etc..you name it there is a pecking order even if absolute "best" isnt nominated for the sake of politics.

With automobiles and components there is always a means to establish a pecking order particularly where quality, durability, reliabilty and performance is concerned and if you or anyone else are unable to determine which is better than the next and, what is worth more $ than the next offering is really of no concern to me at all. With any automotive product the order is always established at one point and usually never by just one person either. I can understand an owner of a Hyundai saying to a Porsche owner they can't see the value....this does happen. I've seen it as i see it here on these forums where these parts are concerned. It's a joke.

Where these AM systems are concerned quality and performance is most certainly quantifiable. Sound? ....well everyone has their take on that one now don't they? That said i see "drone" gets muddled up in this subjectivity routine but funnily enough the manufacturers all seem to know exactly what drone is and how to quantify whether it is acceptable for 99% of the buyers of their vehicles and/or OEM products. With aftermarket exhaust systems things get more blurry as there will always be the users that will say "OH", "it doesn't drone" or "OH" it doesn't go any better or, "OH" it's not worth any more money. That just goes without saying.

Anyway, I can't be held solely responsible for those that are simply unable to determine the taste between $h1t and clay (even if they taste it). Thankfully there are many that can and coincidentally it evidently appears the greater majority of guys with these super quick or modded 997tts chasing the times and so forth are able to tell lol. So, maybe ask some of them for a change why they stumped up the $ and chose an EP. I'm tired of being the whipping post for calling a spade a spade.

And, if you feel they all sound the same then what can i argue? If you are happy i am happy. I know i can tell there is a difference so thats all that matters to me.[/QUOTE]



Paul - I'm not advocating any exhaust! Yes of course there is a pecking order, as seen on the forum- you do not see EP, Tubi, AWE, Techart, FVD etc or any other reputable MFG throwing threads out daily regarding how good their exhaust is, in fact its the opposite(Cold air intakes, AP shower).

Based on the Poll so far we know where EP stands, there is no doubt its a quality product but it not the only quality product. Even if EP is determined to provide the best gains, least BP, throttle response, MFG quality, customer service etc, the bottomline is people buy exhaust for the sound! All of our ears are different and as I stated I don't hear or feel any significant differences between the exhaust I've sampled.

I don't eat $h!t or clay so I'm not holding your soley responsible. The exhaust topic is exhausting and I'll say it again, until we have something measurable, we will continue seeing such threads. (which I dont' mind)

Just my opinion Paul. I'm an N/A guy so going to the Turbo was a downgrade from an exhaust standpoint, and I'm not happy, I'm content! I have yet to hear/feel something else which would persuade me to dump what I currently have.

Cheers

 

[QUOTE=ryem3;3875813]Yeh i heard 6 member johnw saying that about his. We have shared many pms. I think he is the only one that has ever complained to my knowledge tho. I know Surgeon Chris said recently his was a dodge truck on cold start up as well (now he hasn't got one i might add lol) but he may well be just stirring the pot because i read on a thread him raving about how good it was (when he had it) so you may need to factor that one in there. The sound of the EP on cold start is not much different to the Tubi actually which i thought was quite nice. The Tubi probably went a bit too quiet for my taste once the cold start kicked off and then just had a rising and falling resonant hum on the inside vs the EP which sounded like you had porsche engine sitting behind you. At least the tubi didn't sound like a sick tractor tho. Many refer the cold start sound as the "loud and crackly" stage. Good description actually. It really crackles and pops. Neighbours and grumpy old nanas probably wouldn't like it tho LOL. I did and i'm sure 99% do but you will always get the odd man out.

Yeh well that one surprised me too. It seems many have shops do the instals for them tho so don't get to see. I can speak from personal experience the fit of of the tubi wasn't flash and required a bit of adjustment. EP was a precison glove. Night and day. I can go into the detail if you like but don't want to upset anyone more than what i have. Funny how some say i make fuss but they seem to make more fuss when i point stuff out LOL. That tells you something surely. Maybe pm if you want detail. Take cannga who yesterday had a chernobyl meltdown from me answering that 3000rpm question you asked. Odd that the truth bought out such a reaction. Not that it really matters. I mean most Porsche guys should be intelligent enough to know that the car really gets used a lot in the sub 3k rpm range on the way up. Sigh...oh well... The truth hurts for some silly reason. i mean i though nobody cared lol.

...well not so. For me personally it's not so much about how it looks in the box either but there is no denying some look like they belong on a Porsche and some look like they belong more on a beat up hyundai with an AM body kit. LOL. The shiny chrome look never really did it for me either.

Ryem i can't answer that one. As owners everyone has to be their own judge on that. But there are differences in quality between a FS/Agency shower and a titanium akra/or an EP for certain. Whether it all matters in the grand scheme of things is really up to the individual.

...well that one is open for debate for sure.I mean how many exhaust threads do you read about ha! That said i do agree that a turbo is never gonna sound like a GT3. I'm an atmo P driver at heart so moving to a turbo was always going to have certain disappointments regardless of what wound up on the car. As Tom said he's happy with the sound of his tubi and i'm much the same with my EP. That said I'm happy but I'm not going to say i'm GT3 happy. Now that would be silly. An atmo 8500 rpm Porsche engine Vs a 6800 turbo...nuff said just on that score alone.

Here is a link for you on that. I feel if the system is designed properly you can enjoy the best of both worlds (to a point).

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...kpressure.html

Thi$ one gets cried over a lot but the funny thing is there isnt really a great deal of difference in price between many of these sytems brand new anyway. You either pay the price or you don't. Again the used price often reflects just how good a system really is/was. The market always speaks at one end.

I would say lousy stock but i wouldn't say "lousy" period. Lousy vs a GT3 then for sure that's a fair statement. And sure there are systems that are a minority like that sound like sick tractors and/or just plain too loud to be able to remain usable over the long haul, but in general there are a lot of systems available on the market that can produce a good enough sound on the outside. I feel the major obstacle will always be in removing the problem in the drone zone and thats really where the selection of these systems really narrows right back. Again it depends on how many situations you want to be able to use and enjoy the car in. Some are evidently prepared to make what others would say are nasty compromises in a bid to just make a noise. But you can achieve enough noise and get excellent performance and all round usability....but again the choice is limited. Its good to see at least a few of the manufacturers are now taking the problem seriously enough and appear to be providing options.

Cheers.

 

Now ain't that true lol.

I can tell....and many others evidently can too.

Lol. Wasnt saying you did. hehehe. Was just a pun.

I dont mind either. Quite fun actually.

I see things exactly the same way on that score Tom.

I will say tho after having the tubi i have genuinly found the EP to be a big step up. I did a back to back on these two on the same day and under same conditions (it was a 35 degree day too). In stock file It was like adding a mild tune after installing the EP. The differences were profound. To me having a good sound is one thing but i really like to optimise performance where real gains are available and that is of utmost importance to me. I really like to know i have everything working fully in the engine's favor particularly with a tune file in. That's why i also went to the trouble and expense of intercoolers. With a tune these cars are a different ball game again. If the engine can get an advantage i want it in. Reliability is key.

Cheers...but where are the beer emoticons? RL has that one better.

 

I just had a look at results of voting and it looks very natural to me...
Everything except sound can be judged on an exhaust...and thats where europipe is second to none...sound is subjective to ears whether we like it or not...so we cant criticize any exhaust based on sound...because someone might like it while others not...
Apart from all above i would like to mention that europipe is a company that only builds exhausts for porsches...only exhausts for porsches...they are specialized to what they do and they have a reason for every characteristic they give to their exhausts...Thats why they build the best exhausts...because if they were manufacturing intakes,cams,suspensions and spoilers they couldnt be the best at all these products...
When i first decided to buy an ep it was because of the large cross sectional area of the cats they use...they were the only manufacturer who knew that larger cross sectional area means less mean temperature per squeare inch of cats which results in lower egt that gives us better performance...After trying around 8 different exhausts to my turbo my engineering degrees found their best example...

 

Well I sold the Techart exhaust and tomorrow EP1 is going in my car :-) I will let you all know what I think.

Thank you

 

Just to clarify, at first I did like the EP, but grew tired of the startup sound, black flags, etc.. It's the only system I ever had that people negatively commented about fwiw.
Bottom line, there are lots of good systems out there, pick your poison. I try to be open minded to others choices. What sounds crappy to me, others drool over and vise versa.

 

My next exhaust ;-)

 

I believe you can override the startup sound by simply turn off the engine and then turn it on again...i ve tried it on my 996TT a few years ago and it worked...I suppose it should work on 997TT as well...anyone tried it?

 

EP1 is already my new exhaust and I can clearly see why Paul and many others love this exhaust.... I like it a lot and I'm keeping it! After trying 4 different exhaust EP1 is definitely the BEST Exhaust for my taste, the car feels stronger, it's louder and 0 drone..... My suggestion after i tried 4 different exhaust is GET EUROPIPE!

 

Glad you're enjoying it leo :-)

 

Jake,

I like it a lot! thank you for the easy transaction, how do you like your new exhaust?

 

Knew you'd like it Leo! Congratulations! Fancy some folks trying to talk you out of it...... ROFL.

What Skand has identified from his own extensive experience with systems and this 997tt.1 car in general, and from his engineering perspective, and, being from an engineering/automotive background myself i can only totally concur with him 100% on his comments and findings. Actually i will take it one step further here Leo. Iv'e heard some funny things said of late on these forums and for anyone to say they are honesty unable to identify such obvious advantages reflects a sad indictment of what little some must truly know in this area. Either that or envy has taken charge of the senses or sore butts have lead to foolish comments being made in a bid to diminish the EP's true worth for the sake of feel good or denial. Being in the engine and automotive components industry all of my life i've seen quality offered from all levels of manufacturing and make no mistake, there is an upper tier in all automotive products and components and the EP is unquestionably a pinnacle item for this car.