Fair enough. I can't provide proof because I'm not doing a motor build that could even manage to take advantage of the excess fueling capacity this system is expected to provide. Plus I can't take pics of the hardware and couldn't even begin to explain the software changes.

I'm simply a paying GIAC customer (get nothing for free) but very happy and honored that they asked me to use one of my cars to test out a working version. I'm in fact delaying the selling of my 997 just to see what kind of a difference it can make on a stock bolt on car and I will get that chance at the next airstrip event end of February.

I think I have built up enough goodwill on this site that you guys know I'm not making something up but perhaps think maybe I should have waited to use the word "solves" until after dyno results and/or my February Airstrip event results and after I posted pictures and schematics and other details of the system. But frankly this has been a huge impediment for this platform for many years and I was excited to share the news as this is coming for commercial use but just hold tight for a couple more months.

 

What makes you think they have? I don't see any .2 cars using full E85 + bolt on's trapping high 130's maybe 140 yet. If pure 93 octane really traps 133 consistently then E85 should pickup 5-6mph and 100whp.

Solves to me means fully tested, proven, and backed up many times by many cars.

Fastest stock turbo .2 or 991 TTS is trapping what, low 130's?

Absolutely nothing against Longboarder. I can tell you are a true enthusiast and are very gung ho about making more performance. You are also very proud of your shop and tuner, which is fantastic. Kudos to that. I'm also just a consumer but I've been around long enough to know what gets posted and what is real life often are two different worlds. Also I've seen so many shops play the "oh this is our secret sauce" and that just tells me you got stuff to hide. I think shops that post what they did and their findings get actually more respect from consumers... and consumers will actually spend more money with that shop. The secret sauce stuff to me is super lame. Making more power is not rocket science.

Just to show I'm not purely picking on GIAC/Champion, I bought a Cobb and installed their stage 1 map on my bone stock .2 TTS. It ran pretty bad. Partial throttle was breaking up, drivability sucked, blah blah blah. Normally it's best to do some datalogging and send it to tech support at Cobb or something, but I don't wanna even bother. I flashed it right back to OEM. I'll wait to just get my exhaust and AMS IC installed in a couple weeks and then get a custom tune from Rob. Then I'll do datalogging etc and get it sorted. I'll do a lot of vbox runs and see what the average times are and how consistent it is... because that's what it's about.

 

Adam had his new car ready in the gate like a PDK shift!

 

Hey Chris! That's a good question. The system itself flows really well. They don't know how well because as soon as it was hooked up it and programmed, it flowed well beyond the limits of the stock motor. To see the real benefits someone needs to build a motor/pdk. There isn't much room for more power on my car with the stock motor but will give GIAC some time to refine a tune with a more stable fuel system which is a plus as I was always teetering on (and sometimes beyond) the stock system limit.


My original post headline is entirely accurate. The fueling system limitation is solved. I never said anything about a working tune for e85, dramatic increased in power, etc. That is will be worked on next. Things don't happen overnight. This is a big deal (whether you want to acknowledge this or not) as people have been trying this for year without success.


Thanks! Same with you...love watching your videos. Over the years this car has really surprised me (and many others!) at how fast it can be with such little mods. Porsche gives us such an awesome car.


And yes I will definitely miss it. Ultimately I like to track on road courses more than the straight line events. And I just could never get comfortable with the 997 on the track. It's fast as snot, but I decided that it would be a lot cheaper and safer to track my M3. In fact I just returned from the track yesterday and the M3 did great. I picked up the 991 because it is very comfortable and can be a terrific daily driver. I don't think the 997 can be anywhere near as good of a daily.


But I have at least one more Airstrip event with the 997. And then it will be time to pass on the torch. I'm sure someone will pick up where I left off.


Haha best analogy in a while! Still don't know what I want to do with the 991. But since I like doing things different, I may just try to see what I can do with e85 blends on the 991. This is where the fuel system will help. Maybe start with just a tune + e85. I like the idea of $2 a gallon race fuel. Sure it will be slower than the other 991's but it will be interesting just to do comparisons. See you next month!

 

UPDATE # 1:

There is a number of safeties build into the stock fuel system. GIAC told me what these safeties were in engineers-speak and I was lost. lol. But in lay terms, once the fuel system is upgraded, those safeties are gone and instead of fuel cutting when too much fuel/power is requested, now the motor keeps making power beyond previous levels with the stock fuel system in place. Some prelim testing showed that with the GIAC "9-second file", my car would produce so much power the trans would not hold and the motor would blow quickly. The motor and trans needs to be built which I might do, but for now I don't want to blow my motor. At the end of the month I will attend a half mile event where I can do some data logging in real world conditions for GIAC. Right now it's just load dyno testing. My sense is that GIAC will not give me a lot more power than what I was already making...although I have asked them to reduce torque in the mid-range and give me a few more top end ponies. After data is collected from the half mile event, maybe power will be turned up in small incremental amounts.

 

Thanks for the update Adam, I was wondering how this was coming out. Unless I misunderstood, doesn't sound too promising though since your car was already performing well in it's previous state. If the fueling fix only yields basically the same power but does so at the cost of removing safeties then I guess it's back to the drawing board. Hopefully they or someone can find a workaround because it was starting to get interesting for us DFI guys. Both the 997.2 and 991 platforms perform highly with only bolt-ons already so I could only imagine what is possible with more headroom.
At any point, will someone be allowed to actually say what the "fix" is or is it something that we will just have to wait until it comes to the market at some point?

 

We are doing before/after dynos so I may gain a little power for Shift Sector, but my point that I was trying to make is that GIAC will increase the power but in very small increments since the fuel system safeties are gone. Also because nobody really knows how much power these motors can handle.

To address your question in the other thread, the GIAC dyno reads much lower than say Cobb SoCal's dyno. I made 501/526 AWHP/TQ stock at Cobb which would have been around 450/475 on the GIAC dyno. I just wanted to make that distinction because sometimes I say I have 600 wheel and sometimes 650. It's just an estimate but it's also dyno dependent. So making 600 baseline at GIAC before the fuel system, maybe afterwards GIAC lets it go a bit higher to 610-615 for Shift Sector. GIAC will be leaving headroom for now because Shift Sector will be good for data collection. If it does well at Shift Sector, maybe they turn it up again to 620-625.

In terms of the fix, it's a combination of hardware and software. I don't think they are going to give up the tech yet because if anyone was FBO tuned and simply installed the hardware, the motor would blow very quickly. GIAC has data on that already. It's basically like handing someone a loaded gun. Bad stuff can happen quickly so GIAC is implementing a number of OEM-like safety features back into it and basically starting tuning from scratch. It's a lot of work and why it has taken a bit of time so far. But I'm glad to lend them my car to help with the development.

 

Cool, that certainly adds a little clarity now. Good info for sure and still has potential. Best of luck at Shift Sector bro

 

Thx bro. Yeah it definitely has potential...but to achieve the full potential one needs to build the motor and likely the PDK too.

I think it will show a bit of benefits that we may realize at Shift Sector. Since we were at the fueling limits before, my car's performance above say 150mph was not consistent with it's performance from 0-150mph. It's because at 150 the demands on the fuel system are causing some of the safeties that are actually reducing power. Those safeties are no longer needed since the fuel system isn't maxing out so the car will be free to perform at 100% for the full 1/2 mile distance. GIAC thinks we could pick up a couple mph in the 1/2 mile with a stable fuel system with otherwise no increase in power.

 

Great news Adam FYI let me know your gonna do a motorbuild Ill have mine done to and maybe we can get a quantity discount lol

 

Don't tempt me as I'm waiting on another build to figure out the cost. If its reasonable I might bite

 

"Real life" results are in added to first post. Achieved at Shift Sector in front of all. Worked well beyond expectations and not even a drop of e85 yet.


Did you say something about high 130's on factory stock turbos and simple bolt ons?


Testing will continue after hardware is slightly adjusted and back to the airstrip on April 2nd.

 

So the solution is a high pressure fuel system and a low pressure fuel system running in tandem?

I'm assuming this requires an aftermarket ECU to manage?

 

Hardware part of the solution is in the works by SRM (secondary rail/injectors etc SRM has the details there). I've tuned the exact same hardware setup for years now on the BMW direct injection platform. You basically run 6 secondary port fuel injectors as secondaries and run an external to the DME fuel controller and that could be anything from a simple split second AIC to a Haltech, proEFI box, etc. Tons of BMW N54/N55 motors running around these days with secondary port fuel injection and many custom tuned by us. Syvecs is about to get released for the BMW N54 as the first plug and play standalone ECU and secondary fueling will be all sorted in one place along with other features not available to the factory ECU at this time which is something we're really looking forward to as well.

Dzenno@PTF

 

I cannot give away the recipe as I'm assuming GIAC will do it very soon now that the code I was experiencing is gone. It required moving the hardware to a different location but it is working perfectly now. I will be running it April 2nd at another airstrip event and expect it will not have trouble hitting 170 in the half mile.

The beauty of this is that it does not require an aftermarket ECU. It is as simple as the addition of some fueling hardware and a re-tune. That's it!

And while my car was already fast without the fuel system, it made 100 more wheel HP at redline compared to when it didn't have the GIAC fuel system, with ZERO additional changes except for the re-tune.

I will update everyone with some vids of the April 2nd event.

That's cool glad there is some more development. That sounds like it can handle a huge motor build.

What GIAC is doing something very different and much more simplistic and inexpensive. They are enhancing the existing system with no need for secondary port injectors, or standalone ECU. It's basically a new fuel part and a re-tune. That's it. And it can support A LOT of power. I could swap out to Champion 68's and do over 1,000 crank if I wanted to see how far I wanted to push the stock motor.