I was planning on making a post on my past 4yrs experience & how awesome my 997.1 Protomotive 63.5mm package car has been, BUT I ended up adding another worthy trophy to the collection. I will post the former another time and just keep enjoying this car as it continues to surprise me again and again.... not just in speed but over all performance .....well this post is about speed !

I left work around 9:30pm and I took the long way home as I usually do when I take the 911 to work, actually I go the opposite way to go home ! I just to go for a cruise and if I get a random run on the way that would be a +.

I stopped in to a local place that usually has cars of all walks of life & randomly I meet up with a good friend of mine (my crack / E98 dealer) / trouble maker.

Literally he steps out of his car and within 2min. says, "Do you want to run a 2J S2000 that just laid down 720RWHP 10 mins ago?". When we were driving to meet the S2000 they were still unstrapping it from the Dynopack dyno (hub dyno).

I immediately agree, but told him the S2000 weighing in at 3000lbs and 720 RWHP should have me by 3+ cars.

My car has surprised me again & again with it 's broad/fat power band and what these machines can do for just a bolt on E85 car with stock based turbos is just amazing!! When I had Proto's 880cc and a 5 BAR (new packages come with 1100cc's) I was maxed in fuel at the top end and I mean maxed! With that fueling I have taking down some serious machinery with car lengths ie. 10.5 @ 138mph (best mph 139) 2015 Mustang Twin Turbo:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...0-mustang.html

350 V8 88mm turboed auto 81 RX7 9.4 @140trap car by 3 cars AND built 640AWHP Talon 5+ cars):

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...alon-more.html


Looking at the logs and seeing how in some parts I was running a little lean I called TODD K and asked him if i have any flow left up top in my 63.5mm snails. He said yes about 40-50whp up top with more boost and timing with a larger injector . M3 Maestro also (another troublemaker!! ) confirmed what I thought and what Todd K said as he looked at my logs. I didn't want to drop the motor and spend all that time and money to just upgrade injectors to gain only 20/30whp or nothing at all, even though I should do it for peace of mind of extra fueling up top, but I have run the car hard for 2.5 yrs without hicup & runs like a top!!

Since then I have upgraded to 1680cc (in preparation for larger snails) and back to the 3.8BAR FPR with a new Tune from Todd K. Same killer 880cc tune I had before with killer tq down low/and mid power, but now more power up top!!

I have yet to run this new fuel set up against REAL competition, until this run.

Now there is nothing left with these VTG turbos, but what she does with just bolton's is truly noteworthy.

I know these cars move out hard against many higher hp cars for many reasons ie amazing broad power band, gearing, aero, but usually weight is our advantage especially in the every heavier & heaver cars, BUT this run I was the one over weight by over 400lbs!!

Even if he made 650whp, I figured he should have me based on weight or be a close run, let alone 720whp!

THE RUNS: 40mph & 60 mph rolls in good old Mexico

Protomotive 63.5 E85 997.1

VS

2J 720whp 3000lbs S2000 on Mickey-Thompson's.



Sorry as my cameras have been acting up and didn't get the runs in car, but his friend got our 1st run from his car.

I gave him the hit on ALL, but one run out of the three (friend of a friend and had nothing to lose). He brake boosted HARD & I didn't, gave him the hit & then some (the small time that the VTG actuator & ECU is figuring out what to do before the car actually boost & goes). I pulled 2-3 cars on him & the faster we went I kept pulling the more!! 1st run started in 3rd he would get a front wheel on me in between me giving him the hit and his brakeboosting and then my tq hit (started most runs around 4-4.5k rpm) when the boost hit would just stop the pull immediately, I would get 1/2 to 1 car by the top of 3rd & another 2+ top of forth.

Our last run I went down to 2nd to give his 400lbs weight advantage a further benefit, but didn't give him the hit and I also went on the 3rd honk! By the time I rowed to almost the top of 5th I had over 3+ cars & pulling even harder the faster we went!

I thought for sure he would have me by the same amount , but the fat power band got it done ...and I must be making more hp then I thought .

The S2000 owner I ran was a stand up person with no excuses.

My friend that set up the race calls me to LMK that the S2000 texted him & said," that Porsche is freaking fast!".

Afterwards I stopped off at a coffee shop to hang and car talk with his friend (mk4 Supra/car filming) as the s2000 owner had to head home as it was a late night and he had work early in the AM.

His friend after about 40 min shows me a text from the S2000 owner saying, "Damn that Porsche is fast!".

I have raced MANY more cars with more hp & won to my surprise, but to have a car (with a motor I respect 2J) that is making as much power as it was AND the weight advantage ......I am happy as this car never ceases to surprise me for a bolt on / stock based rewheeled turbo platform.



Thanks

Bobby Ali

You are the best bud Always so much fun to chat with you, look thru the logs and then see the car in action. For those wondering the car is not tuned ***** to wall per say, still a tick more room for fun

Now...if we imagine GT30s Sorry I had to

Keep enjoying the great build you have there proven time and time again.

way to squeeze every last ounce out of the 63s! First time I've seen brake boosting in effect...neat.

Nice! I went out this past weekend and surprised a few cars myself. Even I underestimate my own car lol.

I am also on 63.5's, tuned by Protomotive and a bunch of other EVT goodies. I only make 635awhp and 635lbs/tq and running on 1,100 cc injectors.
Todd can squeeze more power out as I am only running 20 lbs of boost - but my car runs with cars making 100-200 more hp to the tires. It really surprises a LOT of cars/people.
The BEST decision I ever made was dumping the EVT tune and switching to Protomotive E85. Todd is a magician for sure!

It is always great talking car talk with someone as knowledgeable as yourself. You are a great asset to the community and my logs !!

Concerning the GT30’s, Let’s see how our genipig Asher ends up, then you jump and last but not least me.

You leave me no other choice , but to squeeze out everythin, when I have big turboed Alpha 997’s rolling around near me now!

I so miss brake boosting a regular non VGT turbo like my EPL Billet 16 996t. It was no joke and violent. Even out side of or at low rpm’s, I would get out 1-2+ cars right off the 3rd honk in my 996 on full bolt on big cubed supercharged Shelby’s back then. Even if I could do it on my VGT 997, I would be to worried about the stock rods, as I must be making 750wtq down low the way it is and the added stress of adding more tq down low might not be a good recipe! Thank goodness these cars still haul butt with a surge of low end tq with out any tricks like brake boosting.


Nice! I am assuming you have a 911 and which cars did you surprise ....details, details!!


Thxs Sam, you are truly a stand up guy! Hey maybe Maestro and I can do 2, “Moaaa powaa” set ups for a crazy deal!

Nice Kill man! Car is dialed in.

Todd's line to me from years ago sums it up best: "alphas make vtgs look stupid"

I would agree here, it is impressive given the physical limitations, what performance the VTGs are producing. At the same time, no doubt, for a given operating condition you will be making more power on the higher flowing WGT options. Both are excellent choices in my humble opinion : )

I think you guys are right, things have really advanced with vtgs. If the engine isn't coming down then upgraded vtgs are a no-brainer. The bigger vtgs do require the larger turbo inlets and bigger injectors so there is some work involved...

Looking at what Bobby and Maestro have done on e85 I think the 2018 version of Todd's statement would be something like "Vtgs are the ugly duckling that grew up into the graceful swan", lol.

If anybody is around Columbus OH with alphas, I will run a rolling race with you with my VTGs😁

Not surprised by the outcome, I am a big 2JZ guy, any idea on his mods list? a 700whp 2JZ could be done with a fast spooling turbo or a lazy cheap/too big turbo which is what most 2JZ setups look like nowadays, lots of guys taking the cheap way out on the most important power adder mod!

That line still is true same fuel vs same fuel. An Alpha car ON PUMP would walk a upgraded VGT on E85!

On a built motor then there is no comparison!!

I don't know if that's true...look at how fast your car and Maestro's is. I'll try for some 100-200 times next time I'm in Mexico.

Not same tuner, but you know I would be down!


I am not in that area, but I would extend the same offer if your every up here.


I will await the details!


S467 on E85


Rated flow for around 850 to 950bhp of flow, he is making 720whp, so not to far off. Coming to spool read below as I gave him all the advantages.


I am a long time Supra guy and previous owner, back in the Mk3 7MGTE days and 2j guy. I was apart of Supra Forums back when there was individual threads spaced out by indents before 1998 etc!


I didn't want to hear any excuses about spool etc, hence me purposely giving him the hit and allowing him to brake boost to the moon and back! In case his turbo was so big that it was a only "top end" car, I purposely stayed in it & went into another gear (5th) even after I pulled cleanly after 1.5 gears, IN CASE he started to come around. That was not the case, but the opposite, the higher speed I went the harder I started to pull. His weight was an advantage and I even went down to 2nd gear (60-70km/h) to let his 450lbs weight advantage the possible "advantage". etc..


This is not my 1st rodeo and the worst is beating someone and then there is excuses. If he was a complete stranger I don't care , "run what you brung", but it was a friend of a friend and wanted any disadvantage to be minimized. Now if he started pulling me, our next run all that goes out the window !



Do a 60-130.


Even that is not a direct comparison. I picked up 40-50whp up top with my larger 1680cc's and it didn't make too much a difference on my 60-130, but I guarantee rowing through a couple of gears using my new found higher rpm power. I would pull my old car especially past 110+mph when our rpms are staying longer in the higher rpms band and not so much depending on our tq and gearing tq multiplication.


Before I did a 5.98 best 60-130 avg 6.0-6.1 just using 4th. I have not really tried with the new set up, but I have done a 5.91 & 5.94, but that was 3rd 4th as I was coming home. I usually am .1-.2 quicker just using 4th. Most likely my average would be .1-.2 quicker with the new found power up top. Being my new power is up top I actually might need to do 3-4th for best time now. I know for a fact that if I upgrade turbos, I would have to do 3-4 for best times as I would have more lag and would need to stay in the higher rpms where most of the power would be.


In a door to door race you usually start in your power band, not in 4th gear at 40mph .


Regardless you should settle up around 5.7-5.9 range. The out of the box Alpha kit was doing 5.9 with 3 shifts back then. Dzenno with out even trying as his focus was on pump & meth did 6.0-6.2straight pump and pushing it Mark did 5.6!! To run any of those time on true straight pump gas, stock long block is amazing and makes upgrading to "real" turbos worth it to me......& add meth or E85 and is cray cray for a bolt on stock motor car & seals the deal for me. Now I just need to figure out if my GF really needs this ring....lets see life long love sealed with a Ring or Alpha kit if she only knows why it has been so long to pop the question ! j/k


Yes we car guys are bad!!!!!