How does one start the track ?
#61
06-24-2010, 10:25 AM
I can tell you that after instructing a lot of students, I have had guys who have had sports cars all their lives, dragged raced, yada yada yada, think they are an excellent driver, etc (i was exactly the same way when I started). 95% of them get on the track during the first couple of sessions and realize very quickly they really don't know how to drive. Some admit it right away and those are the best students who progress the fastest, and others let their ego get in the way and it holds them back from progressing. And that other 5% goes out on track and just seems to get it right away. Actually it is probably smaller than 5%.
#62
06-24-2010, 10:26 AM
Larry, I agree do not get the Gt3 or RS just because you think you might want to go to the track. Your 09 PDK is plenty fast...trust me on this.
For me when I think of Porsche I think of race cars...total performance....so for me I would rather have a GT3 or RS only because those models are the closest I can get to the racing heritage of Porsche.
For me when I think of Porsche I think of race cars...total performance....so for me I would rather have a GT3 or RS only because those models are the closest I can get to the racing heritage of Porsche.
#63
06-24-2010, 10:29 AM
Once you really learn how to drive, and be smooth and fast. The difference in lap times is probably going to be 5-7 seconds. Most tracks are not as big as the legendary Nurburgring and even there, the time difference is less than 20 seconds.
#64
06-24-2010, 10:44 AM
Larry, I agree do not get the Gt3 or RS just because you think you might want to go to the track. Your 09 PDK is plenty fast...trust me on this.
For me when I think of Porsche I think of race cars...total performance....so for me I would rather have a GT3 or RS only because those models are the closest I can get to the racing heritage of Porsche.
For me when I think of Porsche I think of race cars...total performance....so for me I would rather have a GT3 or RS only because those models are the closest I can get to the racing heritage of Porsche.
Of course there are properly modded cars on the track, but few are track tested.
#65
06-24-2010, 02:14 PM
Another thing people often do not think about is reliability. The Weissach design is competent and reliable. How long does a heavily modded car last on the track before over-heating, or before their after-market suspension losing balance?
Of course there are properly modded cars on the track, but few are track tested.
Of course there are properly modded cars on the track, but few are track tested.
Jason
#66
06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 
A little cynical don't you think? I am not sure how aftermarket coilovers would come out of adjustment anymore than say GT3 OE coilovers. And, most guys with modded 997S's that I have raced against actually stay cooler than my basically stock car due to things like 3rd radiators etc.....
Jason
Jason
Also I agree with you . If one picks tuners who are famialar with auto racing they know how to tune the cars. They have years of experience and they themselves race cars on the track .
#67
06-24-2010, 02:39 PM
A little cynical don't you think? I am not sure how aftermarket coilovers would come out of adjustment anymore than say GT3 OE coilovers. And, most guys with modded 997S's that I have raced against actually stay cooler than my basically stock car due to things like 3rd radiators etc.....
Jason
Jason
#68
06-24-2010, 02:40 PM
A little cynical don't you think? I am not sure how aftermarket coilovers would come out of adjustment anymore than say GT3 OE coilovers. And, most guys with modded 997S's that I have raced against actually stay cooler than my basically stock car due to things like 3rd radiators etc.....
Jason
Jason
#69
06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 Larry, as others said just give it a try. Also, forget about getting a 3/RS because you think you might want to track.
I've been to a bunch of schools/events but actually never tracked my own car. Not sure why, but i've always had some hesitation about "jumping into the pool". I"ve been a member of PCA for the last several years, but have never jumped in and done a DE. Finally did an event the other day as a guest of AWE at NJMP.
I guess since i've always done schools etc. I was always a bit concerned about taking my own car on the track - I don't have a sponsor and this is not my day job
. I always figured that most people are driving 10/10 like their hair is on fire.
I've been to a bunch of schools/events but actually never tracked my own car. Not sure why, but i've always had some hesitation about "jumping into the pool". I"ve been a member of PCA for the last several years, but have never jumped in and done a DE. Finally did an event the other day as a guest of AWE at NJMP.
I guess since i've always done schools etc. I was always a bit concerned about taking my own car on the track - I don't have a sponsor and this is not my day job
. I always figured that most people are driving 10/10 like their hair is on fire.I think there's a lot of good info .. but I also feel that there's a lot of purist ego that I see in certain sports .
As a young person I was a competitive swimmer and still can hold my own in masters age group . The guys above me are the former olympians and I know a few of them. They are the most humble people even when it comes to the sport but there are a bunch of guys in the sport (above average )who see a non swimmer and insist upon form and technique instead of getting a feel for the water. The reason why i love the sport is because I had a real life "Mighty Ducks" type of coach. It didn;t matter if we won .. it matteredthat we had fun . And no I didn't make it to the olympics (my dream) but i didn't burn out on the sport like so many who were at that level did who are now my age.
The "you have to drive like this" or " the car is only made for that" -- I just want to go out and have fun and hopefully not put too much wear on my car.
Last edited by yrralis1; 06-24-2010 at 02:48 PM.
#71
06-24-2010, 03:27 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Under Your Car
Age: 46
Posts: 573
Rep Power: 78 Doing what you said is exactly what a DE event is designed for. It is designed to teach people how to drive fast in a controlled environment while improving their skill level, and most importantly having fun doing so. Some people do get carried away in the upper groups about going fast and have a "get out of the way" mentality, etc....but I would say those guys fall in the less than 2-3% category. If you are doing a lot of events to get to that level, you will know the guys you are running with most of the time....it's the same group of people most events....you find out who to hang out with and who avoid....pretty much like any situation in life. They are typically really easy to spot, and really easy to avoid.
Most guys are out there just to have fun, and drive their car fast in a controlled environment. You won't beat up the car in a DE by any means, especially in the lower levels. Get out there and get signed up for an event and check it out, I think you will have a blast.
From what I find at the events, it is just a bunch of car guys hanging out getting to talk about (and drive) cars all weekend long. I have made some lifelong friendships at the track, and love talking to people who come from all over to attend the events.
With that being said, doing DE events isn't exactly a cheap hobby. You have event fees, hotel, food, accelerated wear of tires and brakes (more so than street use), so you will spend money if you decide to do it on a regular basis. Doing an event or two a year is pretty affordable as you really won't notice much additional wear/tear, but if you are planning on doing 8-10 events a year, it gets expensive.....then all of a sudden you want track tires......a trailer....and a tow rig (or bigger tow rig)......then an RV with a trailer......then a tractor trailer to haul you and your buddies cars around the country......its a slippery slope.
#72
06-24-2010, 03:33 PM
Lot of good advice has been posted here.
I am a certified PCA instructor as I am sure many others are here as well. For your first event, get the car tech'd, flush the brake fluid, pick up a helment (go someplace and try one on, don't buy online). Your helmet should be a minimum of an SA2005 (the 2000's will expire as soon as the new helmets come out next year IIRC). Do not buy an M2XXX helmet (motorcycle application). Some places will let you use them, but other organizations will make you have an SA approved helmet. Then get a track map of wherever you are going and memorize the corner numbers, watch some online video of the track if you can....anything to familiarize yourself with the track early is a big help. Other than that get a good night of sleep, show up, jump in with both feet, and most importantly have fun. Your first events make sure you do BOTH days. If you go out and do a day here and a day there, IMHO you will forget it just as fast as you learn it. Repetition makes it stick.
I can tell you that after instructing a lot of students, I have had guys who have had sports cars all their lives, dragged raced, yada yada yada, think they are an excellent driver, etc (i was exactly the same way when I started). 95% of them get on the track during the first couple of sessions and realize very quickly they really don't know how to drive. Some admit it right away and those are the best students who progress the fastest, and others let their ego get in the way and it holds them back from progressing. And that other 5% goes out on track and just seems to get it right away. Actually it is probably smaller than 5%.
In PCA we have 4 classifications of drivers: You start at stage I and advance upwards.
1. Incompetent incompetents (Beginner): These are drivers that don't know that they really don't know how to drive.
2. Competent incompetents (Intermediate): These are drivers that have had an event or two under their belt and know they don't know how to drive.
3. Incompetent competents (Advanced Intermediate): These are drivers that don't think they can drive, but really are pretty good....IE...they get it, they just are usually still timid.
4. Competent competents (advanced): These are the advanced level drivers who now know they can drive.
How long does it take to go from stage I to stage IV....years, and even at stage IV you are still learning every time you go out on track. I still have a lot to learn as an instructor as well. Once you stop learning, well.........
The point I am making, is it doesn't matter what your driving background is, how long you have had a sports car or have been driving....put it on a track and you are starting back at square one. That is what the instructors are there for, to teach you how to handle the car at speed, what the car will do (it will do way more than the driver can), etc. You will have an instructor for many events. There are good instructors and there are well....not good instructors. How people communicate is crucial. If you and your instructor aren't seeing eye to eye, go ask for a different instructor. It might not be anything wrong with you or your instructor, it just might be a difference in communication styles, and that is ok. Eventually you will get to the point where you will do some solo driving. Some people get signed off by their instructors late in the weekend and can go out and drive solo (though beginners should always have an instructor). Don't be in a hurry to get signed off because your buddy did once you get to that level, etc. Having that instructor next to you is not a sign of weakness, it will make you better. I really don't like going out solo in my run groups anymore, i find it boring to be quite honest. I'd rather take a student along with so I can do some teaching while I am the one behind the wheel. At your second event, make sure you get a different instructor. We all teach slightly differently and it is good to take from multiple perspectives.
P.S. I have never heard a BAD thing about the PSDS, I think that is a great program, especially if you own a similar vehicle. Everything I have ever heard about it has been positive.
I won't scare you with pictures of the front of my track car from debris.
I am a certified PCA instructor as I am sure many others are here as well. For your first event, get the car tech'd, flush the brake fluid, pick up a helment (go someplace and try one on, don't buy online). Your helmet should be a minimum of an SA2005 (the 2000's will expire as soon as the new helmets come out next year IIRC). Do not buy an M2XXX helmet (motorcycle application). Some places will let you use them, but other organizations will make you have an SA approved helmet. Then get a track map of wherever you are going and memorize the corner numbers, watch some online video of the track if you can....anything to familiarize yourself with the track early is a big help. Other than that get a good night of sleep, show up, jump in with both feet, and most importantly have fun. Your first events make sure you do BOTH days. If you go out and do a day here and a day there, IMHO you will forget it just as fast as you learn it. Repetition makes it stick.
I can tell you that after instructing a lot of students, I have had guys who have had sports cars all their lives, dragged raced, yada yada yada, think they are an excellent driver, etc (i was exactly the same way when I started). 95% of them get on the track during the first couple of sessions and realize very quickly they really don't know how to drive. Some admit it right away and those are the best students who progress the fastest, and others let their ego get in the way and it holds them back from progressing. And that other 5% goes out on track and just seems to get it right away. Actually it is probably smaller than 5%.
In PCA we have 4 classifications of drivers: You start at stage I and advance upwards.
1. Incompetent incompetents (Beginner): These are drivers that don't know that they really don't know how to drive.
2. Competent incompetents (Intermediate): These are drivers that have had an event or two under their belt and know they don't know how to drive.
3. Incompetent competents (Advanced Intermediate): These are drivers that don't think they can drive, but really are pretty good....IE...they get it, they just are usually still timid.
4. Competent competents (advanced): These are the advanced level drivers who now know they can drive.
How long does it take to go from stage I to stage IV....years, and even at stage IV you are still learning every time you go out on track. I still have a lot to learn as an instructor as well. Once you stop learning, well.........
The point I am making, is it doesn't matter what your driving background is, how long you have had a sports car or have been driving....put it on a track and you are starting back at square one. That is what the instructors are there for, to teach you how to handle the car at speed, what the car will do (it will do way more than the driver can), etc. You will have an instructor for many events. There are good instructors and there are well....not good instructors. How people communicate is crucial. If you and your instructor aren't seeing eye to eye, go ask for a different instructor. It might not be anything wrong with you or your instructor, it just might be a difference in communication styles, and that is ok. Eventually you will get to the point where you will do some solo driving. Some people get signed off by their instructors late in the weekend and can go out and drive solo (though beginners should always have an instructor). Don't be in a hurry to get signed off because your buddy did once you get to that level, etc. Having that instructor next to you is not a sign of weakness, it will make you better. I really don't like going out solo in my run groups anymore, i find it boring to be quite honest. I'd rather take a student along with so I can do some teaching while I am the one behind the wheel. At your second event, make sure you get a different instructor. We all teach slightly differently and it is good to take from multiple perspectives.
P.S. I have never heard a BAD thing about the PSDS, I think that is a great program, especially if you own a similar vehicle. Everything I have ever heard about it has been positive.
I won't scare you with pictures of the front of my track car from debris.
Always thought (incorrectly I suppose) that everyone at PCA DE's just drove all out, and that it wasn't "OK" to not do so.
Very humbling getting hot laps with the likes of Hurly Haywood, chris hall, and others.
#73
06-24-2010, 03:37 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 50
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 161 A little cynical don't you think? I am not sure how aftermarket coilovers would come out of adjustment anymore than say GT3 OE coilovers. And, most guys with modded 997S's that I have raced against actually stay cooler than my basically stock car due to things like 3rd radiators etc.....
Jason
Jason
flying lizard team used to use JRZs from what I know.
#74
06-24-2010, 03:41 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 50
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 161
I think it will take some time for you to get to level where you will start overheating your car on a track but even if you will - 3rd radiator costs $250 and install costs almost same, so it is a minor thing. I have one in my garage waiting to get on, probably next season.
