Got myself an X51 air box, GT3 throttle body, plenum, before & after dynos
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Joined: May 2013
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From: Houston, TX
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I don't think anyone ever answered your question.
Yes, the difference in the amount of air increases by the square of the inside diameter of the air inlet at the MAF but your rounding caused a pretty big error. The actual increase is about 9.5%. The air flow is calculated by the velocity of the incoming air (measured by the MAF) multiplied by the area of the inlet:
Mass Air Flow = Air Velocity (mm/sec) * Area of Air Inlet (mm * mm)
86 mm * 86 mm = 7396 mm squared (area - 5805 mm squared)
90 mm * 90 mm = 8100 mm squared (area - 6359 mm squared)
8100 / 7396 = 109.52 or 6359 / 5805 = 109.54
It appears that the ECU thinks almost 10% less air is being fed into the engine with the X/51 air box vs the stock one.
Thanks for all the reasearch and sharing with us.
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Joined: May 2013
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From: Houston, TX
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HI there
Being back to the same dyno, no graph yet, but in short the X51 map has cured the lean fuel issue.
Before WOT was 14.7 AFR upto 6000rpm with generic softronic map.
Now WOT is 12.55 AFR throughout the whole rev range with X51 softronic map.
In short now the car is running a little rich, but nothing that would cause any damage such as bore wash. But it is robbing a little power 4000rpm upwards.
Also the car gained very healthy sub 2500rpm with X51 map, no doubt because its getting fuel, hence the improves responsiveness I felt. There is a slight torque loss at 2500-3000rpm due to the flap in the vario ram being open to simulate the X51 car, for X51 map, but nothing noticeable by butt dyno.
I've emailed Scott asking if he can alter my tune to hopefully aim us towards around 13.3 - 13.5 AFR wise, this should result in best power/economy and is a safe target on an NA car.
This does however prove that those of you with X51 air boxes on stock map or regular softronic map are running very lean, which is dangerous to your engines. I'd advice you contact Scott for X51 map as it is much safer and hopefully now with a minor tweak to put a little less fuel in it shall also make more power too. Remember he does custom maps like he has for me but does charge.
My plan is when I get a tweaked map from Scott is to head back to the dyno again and do two runs:-
Run 1: Stock airbox with resonator removed and BMC filter, with regular softronic map, but with 82mm throttle body & plenum - As I believe this will make very good power in mid-range and top-end, as stock airbox flows enough and fuelling shall be spot on.
Run 2: X51 airbox with BMC filters, with Softronic X51 mapped with a little less fuel hopefully along with 82mm throttle body and plenum, so we can compare the two like for like.
I think due to how our engines flow air, that on a dyno the X51 air box probably gives no more power at all, ON A DYNO. But on the road due to having cold air rammed down two inlets, I think it does help a bit, plus it sounds amazing and looks superb!
So in short for X51 airbox owners, the softronic X51 map in its present state gives:-
- Resolves lean WOT issue, but is a little rich now at WOT.
- Improves low-down throttle response/torque
- Margin torque loss just before 3000rpm due to vario ram flap being always open to simulate X51 intake design
- Slight power loss 4000-7500rpm
Well worth it though for safety of your engine, but hopefully Scott will modify the map to take a little fuel out which should mean it makes same/more power 4000rpm upwards, making it spot on.
Being back to the same dyno, no graph yet, but in short the X51 map has cured the lean fuel issue.
Before WOT was 14.7 AFR upto 6000rpm with generic softronic map.
Now WOT is 12.55 AFR throughout the whole rev range with X51 softronic map.
In short now the car is running a little rich, but nothing that would cause any damage such as bore wash. But it is robbing a little power 4000rpm upwards.
Also the car gained very healthy sub 2500rpm with X51 map, no doubt because its getting fuel, hence the improves responsiveness I felt. There is a slight torque loss at 2500-3000rpm due to the flap in the vario ram being open to simulate the X51 car, for X51 map, but nothing noticeable by butt dyno.
I've emailed Scott asking if he can alter my tune to hopefully aim us towards around 13.3 - 13.5 AFR wise, this should result in best power/economy and is a safe target on an NA car.
This does however prove that those of you with X51 air boxes on stock map or regular softronic map are running very lean, which is dangerous to your engines. I'd advice you contact Scott for X51 map as it is much safer and hopefully now with a minor tweak to put a little less fuel in it shall also make more power too. Remember he does custom maps like he has for me but does charge.
My plan is when I get a tweaked map from Scott is to head back to the dyno again and do two runs:-
Run 1: Stock airbox with resonator removed and BMC filter, with regular softronic map, but with 82mm throttle body & plenum - As I believe this will make very good power in mid-range and top-end, as stock airbox flows enough and fuelling shall be spot on.
Run 2: X51 airbox with BMC filters, with Softronic X51 mapped with a little less fuel hopefully along with 82mm throttle body and plenum, so we can compare the two like for like.
I think due to how our engines flow air, that on a dyno the X51 air box probably gives no more power at all, ON A DYNO. But on the road due to having cold air rammed down two inlets, I think it does help a bit, plus it sounds amazing and looks superb!
So in short for X51 airbox owners, the softronic X51 map in its present state gives:-
- Resolves lean WOT issue, but is a little rich now at WOT.
- Improves low-down throttle response/torque
- Margin torque loss just before 3000rpm due to vario ram flap being always open to simulate X51 intake design
- Slight power loss 4000-7500rpm
Well worth it though for safety of your engine, but hopefully Scott will modify the map to take a little fuel out which should mean it makes same/more power 4000rpm upwards, making it spot on.
I responded to your question yesterday about the amount of increase in air is actually about 9.5% more with the X/51 airbox than the MAF thinks due to the difference in the inlet size (86 mm vs 90 mm). After thinking about it, this correspond to what you saw with a A/F of 14.7 during your testing (4000+ rpm). If the normal A/F is about 13.4 then:
13.4 * 1.095 = 14.67
Seems that the math works!
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Posts: 272
From: UK
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Hi there
Sorry for lack of updates, I have a new tune from Scott which should give a circa 13.5 AFR, did a track event yesterday and car was fine, did my best laps ever.
I shall be heading back to dyno hopefully in couple weeks to see if this new tune file has the AFR better and helps with power. Shall also put stock tune and air box back on just for comparison.
As to the cost of the tune, that is private between me and Scott, but once I've checked the AFR on this latest tune file update and if it works. I am sure Scott will be willing to sort out any potential customers.
Videos from yesterday track work:-
[YouTube]4R-tjKCO2GI[/YouTube]
[YouTube]jQObItNvpl0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]pXn1WI9Hyz0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]QTvvJuyPC-I[/YouTube]
Even more impressive I went up against a 997.2 GT3 RS on two occasions and passed him, though it was hard work.
Sorry for lack of updates, I have a new tune from Scott which should give a circa 13.5 AFR, did a track event yesterday and car was fine, did my best laps ever.
I shall be heading back to dyno hopefully in couple weeks to see if this new tune file has the AFR better and helps with power. Shall also put stock tune and air box back on just for comparison.
As to the cost of the tune, that is private between me and Scott, but once I've checked the AFR on this latest tune file update and if it works. I am sure Scott will be willing to sort out any potential customers.
Videos from yesterday track work:-
[YouTube]4R-tjKCO2GI[/YouTube]
[YouTube]jQObItNvpl0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]pXn1WI9Hyz0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]QTvvJuyPC-I[/YouTube]
Even more impressive I went up against a 997.2 GT3 RS on two occasions and passed him, though it was hard work.
Last edited by Gibbo205; May 18, 2013 at 02:57 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,431
From: Atlanta, GA
Rep Power: 157
Hi there
Sorry for lack of updates, I have a new tune from Scott which should give a circa 13.5 AFR, did a track event yesterday and car was fine, did my best laps ever.
I shall be heading back to dyno hopefully in couple weeks to see if this new tune file has the AFR better and helps with power. Shall also put stock tune and air box back on just for comparison.
As to the cost of the tune, that is private between me and Scott, but once I've checked the AFR on this latest tune file update and if it works. I am sure Scott will be willing to sort out any potential customers.
Videos from yesterday track work:-
[YouTube]4R-tjKCO2GI[/YouTube]
[YouTube]jQObItNvpl0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]pXn1WI9Hyz0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]QTvvJuyPC-I[/YouTube]
Even more impressive I went up against a 997.2 GT3 RS on two occasions and passed him, though it was hard work.
Sorry for lack of updates, I have a new tune from Scott which should give a circa 13.5 AFR, did a track event yesterday and car was fine, did my best laps ever.
I shall be heading back to dyno hopefully in couple weeks to see if this new tune file has the AFR better and helps with power. Shall also put stock tune and air box back on just for comparison.
As to the cost of the tune, that is private between me and Scott, but once I've checked the AFR on this latest tune file update and if it works. I am sure Scott will be willing to sort out any potential customers.
Videos from yesterday track work:-
[YouTube]4R-tjKCO2GI[/YouTube]
[YouTube]jQObItNvpl0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]pXn1WI9Hyz0[/YouTube]
[YouTube]QTvvJuyPC-I[/YouTube]
Even more impressive I went up against a 997.2 GT3 RS on two occasions and passed him, though it was hard work.
When do you plan on getting the AFR checked? Just curious as I want the tune and would like to wait until it's all sorted out. Thanks Gibbo
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 127
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X-51 airbox 3-4K
Plenum 600-1K
Associated parts for x51 conversion(tubing etc) $200-$300
Tune - 1K- 2K
200 cell cats 1500- 2K
X51 headers 900-1600.
The ranges depend on if you go oem or aftermarket. Also depends on what aftermarket company you go with. Some of these things can be found cheaper due to sale/ buying used etc. So is it worth it? I'm not sure because I haven't completed it yet. I'm still gathering parts and trying to find the time to work it in. Sheesh now that I look at this on paper is prob more cost effective to go with FI.
Ken
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Thanks
Ken
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Posts: 272
From: UK
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The original X51 map gives no codes.
Still awaiting a response from Scott or I look at getting a custom tune done.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,431
From: Atlanta, GA
Rep Power: 157
Really? Can you explain in a bit more detail the difference. Do you have the x51 setup? Im trying to figure out if the plenum is the way to go or not. The OP is suggesting that the oem plenum is designed that way for a reason and the aftermarket ones are not an improvement.
Thanks
Ken
Thanks
Ken
Last edited by White Rock; May 24, 2013 at 05:23 PM.
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From: Atlanta, GA
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To avoid confusion, the above statement was meant to be in addition to Ken968's list. My "feels like a GT3" is with all of the mods, not just the throttle body.
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The new tune was a Softronic flash and the only changes that had been done was to the AFR's to the second one with the faults. The Op had made mention of the faults via email yet there had been no reason as to why he would get these new faults from the changes that had been made and we received no further info. These faults can happen from other reasons such as grounding and or power supply etc. Softronic had been working with the Op on expectations of information being sent to us and not on forums as we have not charged him as of now for any work provided nor have we set a price for a final flash for others. Softronic does require factual info to be sent to us as requested to further analyze any file for further adjustments. All work that has been done has been in fact custom tuning based on the Op's info . Softronic has asked for other info that has not been available yet we have worked on what we have received. The last file has been set to what the Op requested in AFR's. Im sure we can get what he or any other owner requests on a custom tune done.
Last edited by Softronic; May 25, 2013 at 04:40 PM.
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Softronic may be dropping our sponsorship on this site so should anyone have questions please contact us personally at: 203-723-8928
Softronic tuned the winning 2013 Daytonna GX car along with the Porsche Interseries race cars along with other 9967TT and 997TT cars.
New!
Softronic will also be awarding funds to winning racers with our software. A first by any tuner will be an engine platform warranty when you buy a Softronic flash .
Best ,
Scott
Softronic tuned the winning 2013 Daytonna GX car along with the Porsche Interseries race cars along with other 9967TT and 997TT cars.
New!
Softronic will also be awarding funds to winning racers with our software. A first by any tuner will be an engine platform warranty when you buy a Softronic flash .
Best ,
Scott
Last edited by Softronic; May 25, 2013 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Text
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,431
From: Atlanta, GA
Rep Power: 157
The new tune was a Softronic flash and the only changes that had been done was to the AFR's to the second one with the faults. The Op had made mention of the faults via email yet there had been no reason as to why he would get these new faults from the changes that had been made and we received no further info. These faults can happen from other reasons such as grounding and or power supply etc. Softronic had been working with the Op on expectations of information being sent to us and not on forums as we have not charged him as of now for any work provided. Softronic does require factual info to be sent to us as requested to further analyze any file for further adjustments. All work that has been done has been in fact custom tuning based on the Op's info . Softronic has asked for other info that has not been available yet we have worked on what we have received. The last file has been set to what the Op requested in AFR's. Im sure we can get what he or any other owner requests on a custom tune done.
Jason N.