Newby with many questions
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From: solingen, germany
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Jeff,
You can't go wrong with any 997 Porsche. My wife and I each have a 2005 997.1 C2S with the 6-speed transmission.
Stick vs PDK - My opinion is that as awesome as the PDK on the newer cars is, unless you'll be tracking the car or really care about 1/10ths of a second, the "3-pedal" manual transmission cars are much more engaging and enjoyable to drive, especially when they shift as smoothly and precisely as the Porsches do. Both of our cars have SSK (short shift kits) and they make what was just great, truly sublime. Again, this is just my opinion, so no one attack me about the benefits of PDK vs stick - I know there are benefits, but I don't actually care.
Traction - As another poster already mentioned, traction on the 911s is not an issue and although you can compare AWD from other makes (like Audi's Quattro), the vehicle dynamics are different because virtually everything else has the engine at the opposite end of the car than the driving wheels (if we're talking about 2WD sports cars) whereas the 911 has it directly over the drive wheels. When I was looking to purchase my first 911, I too was looking only at C4S models until I found the one I actually bought, which is a RUF R-Kompressor modded car that was based on a narrow-body 3.8L C2S. When I drove it I fell in love and knew that was the one - colors were right, options were almost right, interior trim was right, etc. I actually picked this car up about 600 miles away and drove it home through one of the worst rainstorms of the year, partly at night too, but it never misbehaved, even through the deluge and now that I've had it for about 18 months, I'm actually glad I bought the RWD version as the vehicle dynamics are perfect. With the RWD, you can throttle steer it much easier than the AWD versions, which tend to understeer at the limit instead of being neutral or slightly over-steering. I think with the AWD cars you'd have to be going much faster to be able to experience the same type of vehicle dynamics you can create with the RWD cars. Porsche tends to agree with me as the GT cars (GT2 & GT3) are RWD versions only. I do agree with you though that the wider rear end is very sexy, although with the more "coke-bottle" 993-esque shape that Porsche went back to after the more straight-sided 996 generation, both the NB and WB cars have "hips" and I think the WB cars are only 1"-2" wider at the rear than the NB variants.
S vs non-S - Aside from the 0.2 L greater displacement which results in better mid-range punch, the S cars have other upgrades that I feel justify going with the S. Many S cars you'll find have upgraded interiors (full leather, Bose sound, PSE valved Sport Exhaust, PASM adjustable suspension, larger diameter exhaust, etc). Even if some of these are optional equipment items, people who order the S cars tend to add more options so they are often seen together. Full leather makes a huge difference as to the quality feel of the interior and in a car that costs what these do is definitely a option that should be weighed heavily.
Finally, I looked for about 2 years before finding the right car, in the right color, with the right mileage, at the right price. If you love a certain color, wait to find it, especially if you plan to keep the car for a while, as you'll be much happier long term if you buy exactly what you want than to compromise on colors or equipment, etc. In that spirit, here's the list of websites I scoured constantly looking for the right car (state in which they're located is in parentheses - funny that I actually found it on Auto-Trader.
www.racperformance.com (TX)
www.formanmotorsport.com (AZ)
www.sloancars.com (NY)
www.truspeedmotorcars.com (CA)
www.willhoitenterprises.com (MO)
www.formula1miami.com (FL)
www.victorymotorcars.com (TX)
www.nwicars.com/showroom.htm (OR)
www.chicagomotorcars.com (IL)
www.rpmsportscars.com
www.mgmsl.com
www.themiamigarage.com (FL)
www.starwoodmotors.com (TX)
www.premiersportscars.com (MO)
www.selectluxury.com (GA)
www.drivingemotions.com (FL)
www.rennlist.com
www.ecarlink.com (TX)
www.exoticclassics.com (NY)
www.pelicanparts.com
www.6speedonline.com
www.usimotors.com/porsche (TN)
www.lakenormanimports.com (NC)
www.foreigncarsitalia.com (NC)
www.ardemotorcars.com (TN)
www.musiccitymotorsports.com (TN)
www.globalmotorsports.inc (TN)
Good luck with your search and be sure to post some pictures to the 997 Owners Picture Thread once you have a new family member. Here are a couple shots of ours.
You can't go wrong with any 997 Porsche. My wife and I each have a 2005 997.1 C2S with the 6-speed transmission.
Stick vs PDK - My opinion is that as awesome as the PDK on the newer cars is, unless you'll be tracking the car or really care about 1/10ths of a second, the "3-pedal" manual transmission cars are much more engaging and enjoyable to drive, especially when they shift as smoothly and precisely as the Porsches do. Both of our cars have SSK (short shift kits) and they make what was just great, truly sublime. Again, this is just my opinion, so no one attack me about the benefits of PDK vs stick - I know there are benefits, but I don't actually care.
Traction - As another poster already mentioned, traction on the 911s is not an issue and although you can compare AWD from other makes (like Audi's Quattro), the vehicle dynamics are different because virtually everything else has the engine at the opposite end of the car than the driving wheels (if we're talking about 2WD sports cars) whereas the 911 has it directly over the drive wheels. When I was looking to purchase my first 911, I too was looking only at C4S models until I found the one I actually bought, which is a RUF R-Kompressor modded car that was based on a narrow-body 3.8L C2S. When I drove it I fell in love and knew that was the one - colors were right, options were almost right, interior trim was right, etc. I actually picked this car up about 600 miles away and drove it home through one of the worst rainstorms of the year, partly at night too, but it never misbehaved, even through the deluge and now that I've had it for about 18 months, I'm actually glad I bought the RWD version as the vehicle dynamics are perfect. With the RWD, you can throttle steer it much easier than the AWD versions, which tend to understeer at the limit instead of being neutral or slightly over-steering. I think with the AWD cars you'd have to be going much faster to be able to experience the same type of vehicle dynamics you can create with the RWD cars. Porsche tends to agree with me as the GT cars (GT2 & GT3) are RWD versions only. I do agree with you though that the wider rear end is very sexy, although with the more "coke-bottle" 993-esque shape that Porsche went back to after the more straight-sided 996 generation, both the NB and WB cars have "hips" and I think the WB cars are only 1"-2" wider at the rear than the NB variants.
S vs non-S - Aside from the 0.2 L greater displacement which results in better mid-range punch, the S cars have other upgrades that I feel justify going with the S. Many S cars you'll find have upgraded interiors (full leather, Bose sound, PSE valved Sport Exhaust, PASM adjustable suspension, larger diameter exhaust, etc). Even if some of these are optional equipment items, people who order the S cars tend to add more options so they are often seen together. Full leather makes a huge difference as to the quality feel of the interior and in a car that costs what these do is definitely a option that should be weighed heavily.
Finally, I looked for about 2 years before finding the right car, in the right color, with the right mileage, at the right price. If you love a certain color, wait to find it, especially if you plan to keep the car for a while, as you'll be much happier long term if you buy exactly what you want than to compromise on colors or equipment, etc. In that spirit, here's the list of websites I scoured constantly looking for the right car (state in which they're located is in parentheses - funny that I actually found it on Auto-Trader.
www.racperformance.com (TX)
www.formanmotorsport.com (AZ)
www.sloancars.com (NY)
www.truspeedmotorcars.com (CA)
www.willhoitenterprises.com (MO)
www.formula1miami.com (FL)
www.victorymotorcars.com (TX)
www.nwicars.com/showroom.htm (OR)
www.chicagomotorcars.com (IL)
www.rpmsportscars.com
www.mgmsl.com
www.themiamigarage.com (FL)
www.starwoodmotors.com (TX)
www.premiersportscars.com (MO)
www.selectluxury.com (GA)
www.drivingemotions.com (FL)
www.rennlist.com
www.ecarlink.com (TX)
www.exoticclassics.com (NY)
www.pelicanparts.com
www.6speedonline.com
www.usimotors.com/porsche (TN)
www.lakenormanimports.com (NC)
www.foreigncarsitalia.com (NC)
www.ardemotorcars.com (TN)
www.musiccitymotorsports.com (TN)
www.globalmotorsports.inc (TN)
Good luck with your search and be sure to post some pictures to the 997 Owners Picture Thread once you have a new family member. Here are a couple shots of ours.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Southern California
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I would definitely do the S even the the non S is plenty fast.
The S has standard options that are worth it to me.
The bigger engine, bigger brakes, xenon headlights standard, pasm standard, I can't remember what else since its been a while since I owned a 997...
The S has standard options that are worth it to me.
The bigger engine, bigger brakes, xenon headlights standard, pasm standard, I can't remember what else since its been a while since I owned a 997...
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,095
From: Clemson, SC
Rep Power: 135
Ruf
The upper wing from RUF is fixed, but I've just started a project to change that. The mounting bolt pattern on the underside of the RUF carbon decklid is within a mm or so of the mounting bolt pattern used for the hydraulic wing on the 996 TT. I've bought a set of hydraulics from a 996TT as well as the wiring harness (harness plugs are different between the 996 & 997 in the engine bay so I'll mate the engine bay side of my 997 harness with the decklid side of the 996 harness to get full functionality for the active Aero, light, fan, etc. The 2 wings of the RUF spoiler look like they will nest properly when lowered, even if I need to modify the mounting angle slightly.
I like the aggressive look of the RUF bi-plane wing but think it's a little much when the car is stationary which is why I've decided to do the project. Plus, it will be really cool as I'm walking away from the Corvettes and Vipers for them to see the wing raise on its own as I pass about 80
I like the aggressive look of the RUF bi-plane wing but think it's a little much when the car is stationary which is why I've decided to do the project. Plus, it will be really cool as I'm walking away from the Corvettes and Vipers for them to see the wing raise on its own as I pass about 80
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From: Long Island, NY
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Yeah, I am definitely getting an S. Leaning heavily towards a 4S Coupe, meteor Gray, PDK+Chrono. I found a 2009 with 25K. Was hoping to find a lower mileage 2010, but I may consider this one if it is CPO. Is that the right lingo - CPO? There are plenty of Black cars equipped the way I want it, but I want a Gray one. I want, I want, I want....
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5-6 K per year. The car was driven and most kinks, if any, have been sorted out.
my 2 cents
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From: Clemson, SC
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Mileage
These cars do better when they're driven more regularly than when the sit for long periods of time. That mileage wouldn't scare me away at all. When I bought mine it had 30,000 on it and my wife's closer to 40,000.
There was a guy in the Atlanta area trying to sell a 997.1 C2S (so somewhere in the '05--'08 range) with under 2,000 miles and he couldn't get anyone to touch it for fear of too much sitting and not enough driving.
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25k miles on a 2009 is great! I rather buy a 2009 with those miles as appose to one with 6k miles. These cars are meant to be driven. Bad things starts to happen when they sit for too long!! Good luck!!
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From: Long Island, NY
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Ok, great feed back. I feel a lot better about the mileage.
Now for the $64,000 question, no pun intended. What do you guys think would be a fair price for a 2009 C4S coupe, PDK, Chrono with 25,000 miles?
Now for the $64,000 question, no pun intended. What do you guys think would be a fair price for a 2009 C4S coupe, PDK, Chrono with 25,000 miles?
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From: Florida
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As a reference point, about a week ago I was offered 59K for my -09 C4S as a trade by a Porsche dealership without the dealer actually knowing what I wanted to buy instead. I just asked what the true value of the car was to the dealer. Sticker on my car when sold new was 113K. Pretty loaded up. I have 30K miles on the dial.
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$65k would thrill me if:
New rubber
Kept inside/paint excellent/wheels ding free
Both keys
Interior shows minimal wear/no smoke/french fries/rips, etc.
That car with 25k on the clock, super clean, $65k would be a fair price for a minty C4S.
$60k would be brilliant. Good luck.
New rubber
Kept inside/paint excellent/wheels ding free
Both keys
Interior shows minimal wear/no smoke/french fries/rips, etc.
That car with 25k on the clock, super clean, $65k would be a fair price for a minty C4S.
$60k would be brilliant. Good luck.
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From: Long Island, NY
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Does CPO, new bridge stone tires, Bose High End Sound, Black Full Leather, Sport Bucket Seats, GPS and blue tooth add much to the price?
Last edited by jeffkilly; Sep 27, 2013 at 09:23 PM.
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Options
In my experience, of that list, CPO is the one that would add the most to the cost of a pre-owned vehicle, but that's also because it then also comes with a Porsche factory warranty. The others all add a little bit each, seats are easy to change, Bluetooth is easy to add with a Dension kit (I did that too), the others like full leather, GPS, and Bose are more difficult to retrofit in, so if those are important to you, find a car with them.
My opinion on these is (again, my opinion only):
My opinion on these is (again, my opinion only):
- GPS doesn't matter at all, the Google maps program on any Android phone is better with satellite imagery, and is always up to date.
- Adding an aftermarket Dension Gateway 500 with BT interface is a few hours, but once that's in there, you can stream audio from your phone, GPS map directions come through the car stereo too, and you have integrated hands free calling as well.
- Seats - I changed my stock seats to Adaptive Sport Seats Plus and that's as simple as disconnecting the battery, 4 bolts and 1 wiring harness plug per seat, then reconnecting the battery. Make sure you understand the seat model names when looking at vehicle adds. Stock seats are those that have the narrower backs and can be either full leather or partial leather (back are leather on the full leather seats). Sport Seats are the ones with the dark metallic grey backs, the shoulder supports, taller headrest, and better side bolsters. These can come in manual or power versions. On the manual versions, the fore/aft movement and the height and seat bottom angle are adjusted by handles, but the backrest recline is always power. Then there are the Adaptive Sport Seats Plus that also add power inflated side bolsters to the horizontal and vertical side portions of the seats (you can tell these by 2 additional silver buttons on the front outside corner of each seat). Then there are 2 different versions of Bucket seats, all of which are carbon fiber I believe. On the older and more hardcore version, the angle of the backrest is not adjustable and the seat top does not fold forward for access to the rear seats. On the newer version they are hinged so you can access the back seat, but I don't know for sure if the backrest portion is also adjustable or fixed in a specific angle.
- Full leather is so worth it, as it changes the entire experience inside the car and gives it a much more quality feel. Dash, door panels, and lots of other litter surfaces are then covered with leather instead of plastic, but not everything as Porsche has a lot of leather add on packages for the interior above and beyond what's included in "Full Leather".
- Bose - I've never been in a non-Bose car so I can't comment on what that sound system is like, but I can tell you if you like Bass, the Bose system produces a lot of it - mine us usually set to -5 and it's still pretty "thumpy".
- There is also a Memory Seat option and you can tell the cars that have that by the buttons on the dirivers door. Here's a picture of my Driver's Door panel and from that you can tell the car has Full Leather, Bose, and Memory Seats (and a bunch of carbon fiber trim)
Last edited by Petza914; Sep 27, 2013 at 10:09 PM. Reason: rotate photo