Aston Martin makes one of the best if not the best looking cars on the market, the DBS. It's their flagship model and a performance focused machine. The question is why don't Aston ever create a car that matches its rivals? This car competes against some very fast supercars such as the Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano. For the price and a 6.0 V12 you would expect it to make upwards of 600 horsepower yet the DBS makes 510 and run 12s in the quarter mile, a result far from it's rivals. Yes, this is a GT car and is not an extreme hardcore racer however I don't understand the problem, Aston are working with a huge engine, surely they can make it better. They've proved they know how to make cars, the interiors and exteriors as well as the sound their cars have is stunning. It would be the perfect GT/supercar is it had a ~630-650hp V12 like the 599 GTB and the GTO.

Secondly, most cars have tuning capabilities, whether is be bolt on upgrades such as headers, intakes, cams etc to more drastic upgrades like forced induction. For the DBS I haven't seen many examples, there are a few companies that tune the car to 550hp however that is still no where near it's rivals. Forgive me if I don't know about the car as you do however has this engine really reached its limits?

 

Didn't you already start the same basic thread a few weeks back?

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...rformance.html

 

Similar discussions have been had on PH.

Consensus is that 550-600bhp is more than achievable and will be just as reliable but it'll cost some money to do. At the end of the day, the engine, although large, is low tech - no variable valve timing which is the killer, low rev limit due to the internals, not a hugely complicated management system and wet sumped.

A modern Ferrari engine is so unbelievably complicated and perhaps fragile long-term with it. You can't rev an engine to 9krpm all day without expecting something to be amiss after a few 10s of thousands of miles. Plenty of DB9s about with 80-90k miles on them now in the UK, still rock solid. The Aston V12 has longevity on its side, the upside of a lower specific output?

The easiest/safest way seems to be from 3rd party tuners to get a genuine, reliable power increase from modified internals - this is what will be happening to my DB9, it will comfortably outperform even the upcoming DBS model when finished. If Aston won't do it, we as the owners will have to do it for them.

Any of you guys heard of TVR? We all used to do their work for them as well. A lot of ex-TVR owners in the Aston section in the UK now, was the natual leap for us

 

. . . . and this was basically explained in the thread he started last month.

If I were cynical (okay, I am cynical), I would think that this is troll behavior. Seem to recall a comment from the OP in the previous thread that the DBS and the V12V were "sluggish" and "slow and lazy." My first thought is that you don't come onto the Aston forum and make such statements in your first thread. My second thought is that this guy has no idea of what he's talking about if he thinks the DBS and V12V have "sluggish" or "lazy" acceleration. Seems like he's just trying to stir the pot.

 

Well he does have a point...I don't think he's a troll, although this has been discussed before. They aren't "slow" but it's all relative...slower the the competition and slower than you'd expect given the price. There are plenty of much cheaper cars that are faster than both the V8 and V12 Vantage, as we know, but it's not just about the performance.

 

I think that your perspective is rooted in the 4.3L V8. The 4.7 and the V8S are miles ahead of the 4.3 let alone the V12. Frankly, I think these cars are bargains in terms of their finish, style and exclusivity. There will always be a car made by someone else in the same price category that is faster or quicker around the ring. None of them will look as good or come with the feeling that an AM will. The V12 is almost frightening. I suppose for 200K I could have gotten a 997 TTS for around the same price and been faster. Then again, I can't take advantage of the speed I have now. With the Porsche I would have just felt sad that I had one of the millions of Porsches out there that can't be driven appropriately because of poor roads or horrendous traffic. Ferraris and Lambos are 70-80K more. I know there are Corvettes and GTR's that are less but they don't belong in this conversation. Having said that, I don't understand the knocking of these cars.

I don't troll around to other forums shining a light on how other cars are ugly or not as cool. There are compromises to owning any car. It's really personal preference. I really don't care what others say when it comes to any car I own. It's really about how I enjoy it. Trying to stir s#!t about a car is just a sign of haterism and jealousy.

 

But the thing is, how much of that extra power, your 600+bhp is useable? I reraly if EVER set my traction control light off in my DB9, the modern Ferraris, Mercs and BMs are just driven around with their electronic stability aids going permanently (I don't include Porsche in this - their power output Vs. grip is sublime)! I come from British cars (Marcos, TVR, Lotus) that have no driver aids so that influences my driving. It's there in the Aston for emergencies, not for day-to-day driving, same with ABS. If I light it up, I'm being an ****, or not being smooth.

I remember and old Top Gear with JC in some monstrously overpowered Merc saloon that just lit the traction control light as soon as you put your foot down. Your 600+bhp is just impossble to apply to the road except in ideal conditions in a straight line. Or perhaps if mid-engined with 13" rear tyres!

Not useable = no point. Astons have a near perfect balance of power and useablity. Squeezing 550bhp out of my engine will gve me more of what I need in certain situations, anything else like a supercharged 650bhp I would struggle to make use of. My 2 pence worth.

 

Yes, he has a point . . . the exact same point (and a critical one) he made in his last thread. The last poster to do this sort of thing was our friend who extolled the greatness of the Jaguar (and criticized the Aston). Furthermore, he throws out these criticisms (i.e., the cars are "slow" NOT that the cars are slower than some of its peers) and then stays mum. It's like dropping a grenade in the forum and watching to see how we'll react. I still say troll.

 

Wait. Is it Groundhog Day again?

 

+1, KarlFranz

Maybe he was looking for different answers for the same questions?

 

This has definitely been a recurring theme, but for a reason.

I love the AM brand, near-perfect looks, amazing engine sounds, and build quality...but I just want the cars to perform up to how they should based on their price and looks.

It's true that the 4.7 is much faster than the 4.3, but it's still slower than an M3...and my X5M, too. And while the V12 is the fastest car AM has ever made, it's about even with an M3 and a C63...quick cars, for sure, but with all that extra hp and $$ you expect more.

The GTR is a supercar, so yes, you can't compare the 2, but it's just an example of what can be done performance-wise. Of course, Nissan has much deeper pockets for research and development. I'd just like to see AM do better.

 

For performace, just get yourselves a bike!!!
0-100mph in 5secs!!!

 

No arguments there. My point though is that the guy's stirring the pot, not trying to initiate a legitimate discussion. It's not the premise of his post, it's the reason why he's posting it, which is IMO just to cause trouble.

 

I just realized the double post, I genuinely forgot about my last thread. I'm not here "trolling" or trying to insult AM owners, quite the opposite in fact. For me, the DBS is the ultimate car, the best looking and the best interior and an amazing sound however I just brought the topic to light because I think Aston Martin can make a better engine. That's amount the only thing that's "wrong" with the DBS, I say "wrong" because it's not wrong, it's a very fast car and a very good engine however wrong here is referring to the competition, the price of the vehicle and what it offers. For this amount of money the DBS should have at least 600hp with a huge engine like that. I understand it's a small company however I still think the DBS could be better in that regard. Now I could only hope to dream of owning a DBS at the moment so for me this topic is irrelevant, I'm just surprised people haven't brought it up more often. As more AM owners, I mean no disrespect, quite the opposite in fact, I think your great taste led you to buying this brand which is very prestigious, luxurious and exclusive....and 007 drives one

As for the other point, why haven't tuning companies brought on some modifications to increase engine power. The simplest bolt ons can give the HP figure a nudge north. I think this engine can make 600hp with modifications, it is after all a 6.0 V12. It would be nice to see a DBS giving Ferraris and Lamborghinis a run for their money. It's a 12 sec car which for the price tag is quite underpowered, the new SLS is a mid 11s car which I think the DBS should be.

In conclusion, I love the DBS and all AMs, I find people who buy them interesting because they tend to have more taste and class and despite the engine power I would still take a DBS over any car including the Bugatti Veyron.

 

Getting big power out of the V12 is not as simple as a 'bolt-on'! 100bhp/litre used to be somthing only the McLaren F1 and BMW M3 could boast of, now it's expected that every performance car can do it. But the V12 in the DBS goes back to the DB7 Vantage, back to two Ford Duratec V6s joined at the crankcase (but built by Cosworth), back to the mid-90s. It's old tech, and without serious modification 100bhp/litre just isn't an option. It doesn't have variable valve timing, it's a simple old school V12.

Glad you came back to this thread and expanded on your original post!

My car will be the prototype for Bamford Rose (in the UK) to develop their own headers and cat-back system which will give up an easy 40bhp whether you have a 450bhp DB9 or a 510bhp V12V. Once this is done on my car, it will be made available to all-comers, I belive the plan is to have it supplied to the US market too, not just the lucky Brits!

While they are being built on a dummy engine in my car, my engine will be out and I'm going internal... forged pistons, different cams, porting, polishing, a full engine rebuild. Yes that engine can make the power, but not in standard AM factory spec, certainly not reliably. It was never conceived to do that in its present form. I would also think that bolting on a supercharger without modifying the interals could end up as a disastrous option...

Next generation of DBS in the next couple of years will have 540bhp. Do we really live in a world where that's not enough for most people..? But if you're not most people... well there will very soon be an option