Originally Posted by BLACKC63LSD

The E55 sits on an airmatic suspension. The car rides like a 1981 Eldorado! You should read about and test drive cars before making impulsive decisons based on a fading reputation. The C63 sits on traditional shocks and springs. I wouldn't trade my car for a CL65!

I have driven many high performance cars and happen to know a thing or two. Sorry, I made you feel bad about your decision to buy an M3. If your so biased towards BMW's a much smarter decision would have been to buy a 335i and mod it instead of spending $70K on a car that has as much torque as a Nissan Maxima. I would rather enjoy the C63 between 1,000 and 5,000 RPM's then to risk getting a ticket winding out the 4.0 liter to 6,500 plus RPM's and weaving in and out of traffic in order to reap any benefit from it's motorcycle simulating engine.

Like I honestly said, although the M3 is a better quality car it is a track car and belongs there. The C63 is a muscle car and puts the M3, M5 and M6 to shame on the street!

If your so sure that the M3 is more fun to drive on the street then the C63 then why is each BMW dealer sitting on 10+ of them and the C63's are going out the door before they hit the showroom floor? Just something to think about.....

Originally Posted by CURI0

Low on torque, compared to what? Here is a list of cars with more torque that the M3 either outperforms or it is a drivers race:

1. Jaguar XKR - 4.2 liter WITH a supercharger
2. Ford GT500 - 5.4 liter V8, WITH a supercharger
3. Aston Martin AMV8 - 4.2 Liter V8 and 4.7 liter V8
4. Dodge Challenger / Charger SRT-8 - 6.1 liter V8
5. Chevy Camaro - 6.2 liter V8
6. Pontiac GTO - 6.0 liter v8
7. Lexus IS-F - 5.0 liter v8
8. Aston Martin DB7 - 6.0 liter V12
9. Bentley Continental GT - 5.5 liter twin turbo W12
10. Audi R8 - 4.2 liter v8
11. Chevrolet Corvette - 6.2 liter v8
12. Maserati Gran Turismo S - 4.7 liter v8
13. Mercedes CL63, SL63, S63 - 6.2 liter v8
14. Audi S6/S8 - 5.2 liter V10
15. Mustang GT - 4.6 liter v8
16. Ferrari 612 Scaglietti - 5.7 liter v12
17. Pontiac G8 GT - 6.0 / 6.2 liter v8
18. Cadillac XLR-V - 4.4 liter V8 WITH supercharger

Every single one of those cars has a larger motor, embarrassing for BMW of for them? What is more impressive, a 4.0 liter V8 keeping pace with a 6.2 liter V8 or a 6.2 liter V8 keeping pace with a 4.0 liter V8? The M3 makes the most efficient use of its power.

Name cars with a smaller motor that outperform the M3... a very short list naturally aspirated (GT3) and the only cars with forced induction would be the top of the 911 range and the GTR.

So, who is taking advantage of it and how? Having a ton of torque down low feels nice, as you spin your wheels, and the M3 with less torque takes off and maintains its advantage because it puts its power to the ground.


Funny, my low torque M3 has had no trouble spanking cars with far more torque on the street. Torque figures are nice for racing on paper though.

Originally Posted by BLACKC63LSD

I suggest driving a car with a V-8 that puts out over 400lbs of torque and you might realize what you are saying makes no sense! Even an M5 putting out 383lbs of torque is boring to drive on the street in comparison to a C63 or a Porsche Turbo!

Originally Posted by CURI0

The C63 is an overrated one dimensional typical mercedes. It is not on par with an M3 and never will be. Even with its huge displacement advantage it can't even take the straighline from the DCT M3, sad.

Mercedes sticks their big v8 in a C class and calls it a day and thinks they are on par with an M3. The car is a joke, might as well get the E55 and have a platform that is better at going straight. No Mercedes short of the black series can hold a candle to the M3 anyway. The M3 is the superior all around car, period. The people choosing M3's want the superior drivers car, the C63 is actually the boring one. A lot of these arguments bare resemblance to the people choosing the 997S over the Z06.

BMW dealers sitting on them? I dont know, I bought mine, and had trouble getting a hold of a DCT in my trim. Maybe the M3 has several different trim levels? Funny, my local MB dealership has FIVE C63's sitting, what is the hold up?

Originally Posted by MrBails

Typical ignorant BMW fanboy response. Have you actually driven a C63? Of course not.

The C63 drives NOTHING like your "typical" Mercedes. Your statements show you have no clue what you're talking about.

The new M3 is very boring compared to the C63. I'd actually prefer the E46 M3 over the new one. The new M3 feels very civilized and not much faster than a 335i.

Originally Posted by BLACKC63LSD

It's quite interesting that you keep mentioning "racing on paper" but it sounds to me that the only car you have ever driven was the M3. Accordingly, you are the one that is on paper pal. I have driven both the M3 and the C63.

I suggest driving a car with a V-8 that puts out over 400lbs of torque and you might realize what you are saying makes no sense! Even an M5 putting out 383lbs of torque is boring to drive on the street in comparison to a C63 or a Porsche Turbo!

Originally Posted by CURI0

Low on torque, compared to what? Here is a list of cars with more torque that the M3 either outperforms or it is a drivers race:

1. Jaguar XKR - 4.2 liter WITH a supercharger
2. Ford GT500 - 5.4 liter V8, WITH a supercharger
3. Aston Martin AMV8 - 4.2 Liter V8 and 4.7 liter V8
4. Dodge Challenger / Charger SRT-8 - 6.1 liter V8
5. Chevy Camaro - 6.2 liter V8
6. Pontiac GTO - 6.0 liter v8
7. Lexus IS-F - 5.0 liter v8
8. Aston Martin DB7 - 6.0 liter V12
9. Bentley Continental GT - 5.5 liter twin turbo W12
10. Audi R8 - 4.2 liter v8
11. Chevrolet Corvette - 6.2 liter v8
12. Maserati Gran Turismo S - 4.7 liter v8
13. Mercedes CL63, SL63, S63 - 6.2 liter v8
14. Audi S6/S8 - 5.2 liter V10
15. Mustang GT - 4.6 liter v8
16. Ferrari 612 Scaglietti - 5.7 liter v12
17. Pontiac G8 GT - 6.0 / 6.2 liter v8
18. Cadillac XLR-V - 4.4 liter V8 WITH supercharger

Every single one of those cars has a larger motor, embarrassing for BMW of for them? What is more impressive, a 4.0 liter V8 keeping pace with a 6.2 liter V8 or a 6.2 liter V8 keeping pace with a 4.0 liter V8? The M3 makes the most efficient use of its power.

Name cars with a smaller motor that outperform the M3... a very short list naturally aspirated (GT3) and the only cars with forced induction would be the top of the 911 range and the GTR.

So, who is taking advantage of it and how? Having a ton of torque down low feels nice, as you spin your wheels, and the M3 with less torque takes off and maintains its advantage because it puts its power to the ground.

Funny, my low torque M3 has had no trouble spanking cars with far more torque on the street. Torque figures are nice for racing on paper though.

Originally Posted by CURI0

The C63 is an overrated one dimensional typical mercedes. It is not on par with an M3 and never will be. Even with its huge displacement advantage it can't even take the straighline from the DCT M3, sad.

Mercedes sticks their big v8 in a C class and calls it a day and thinks they are on par with an M3. The car is a joke, might as well get the E55 and have a platform that is better at going straight. No Mercedes short of the black series can hold a candle to the M3 anyway. The M3 is the superior all around car, period. The people choosing M3's want the superior drivers car, the C63 is actually the boring one. A lot of these arguments bare resemblance to the people choosing the 997S over the Z06.

BMW dealers sitting on them? I dont know, I bought mine, and had trouble getting a hold of a DCT in my trim. Maybe the M3 has several different trim levels? Funny, my local MB dealership has FIVE C63's sitting, what is the hold up?

Originally Posted by CURI0

The C63 and DCT M3 are basically neck and neck straightline.

The shifter lag is a software issue and the update to fix it (along with the downshifting under hard braking) is currently a month out according to various service advisors.

The actual shift speed is brutal fast, namely in S6.

The M3 is the more complete all around drivers car, the C63 is more one dimensional in comparison. The choice is fairly easy based on what you want out of the car.

Originally Posted by CURI0

The GT3 with its lower torque beats up on most v8's. The F430, M6, gallardo, need I go on? If you just look at one aspect, torque, and not weight, gearing, shift speed, curve, etc. you are just as one dimensional as the C63.

Originally Posted by 996TTDave

You really don't get it, do you? The M3 is LOW on torque - case closed. For such a big engine, the torque is missing - is it bad thing? That is debatable, but never did i say it was

By the way, not all those cars you listed are capable of "outperforming" the M3. Many of them, on paper of course, has shown faster times in many different categories



Well you're just a little ***** aren't you?

I am by no means an advocate or MB, but your posts on this particular topic have moved me away from the BMW arena.

These are some of the most ignorant comments i have ever read on this forum. In your skewed world, i'm sure you think the M3 is a better all around car, then an F430 and an LP560 and, it's bigger brother the LP640 - it's just the best car ever made... EEVVVEERRRR

Grow up kid, im surprised your dad let you take his M3 out anyway - You're the type of person that Jeremy Clarkson's comments hold true, "M3 Drivers have no friends." and you give all other M3 drivers a bad name thinking your so big and bad and no other car can "hold a candle to you" your exactly what you words stated you to be, a little *****... done

... NEXT!

Originally Posted by Mr.PS

Like others have noted you drive an M3 and nothing will change your opinion, but you're delusional if you think the M3 DCT and C63 are neck and neck. The C63 is MUCH faster then the M3. The M3 has NO torque, your lame list of cars it ourperforms still does not change the fact that it has no torque.

It's a great car and nobody is taking that away from the M3, but it feels slower and is much slower then the C63 - because the lack of low end torque. Not to mention with headers, ecu, and exhaust the C63 will be pushing 500hp. The C63 is the better car IMO unless you're into tracking the car. Even then the performance package C63 will most likely out perform the M3 on the track. The suspension, brakes, and power out gun what the M3 has to offer.

I'm not an AMG dick rider either, I love M and am a current BMW owner, but the C63 vs M3 war has been won by the C63. It's hands down the best car under $80k out there right now. The CLK63 BS is nice, but it's also a very dated car. The CLK debuted in 2002, it's getting old now. The body style is due for a change; with that being said it's a great car.



Again, you're delusional. The GT3 is much slower then the 430, Gallardo, and M6. It will get spanked by those cars in a straight line by car lengths. On the track is a different story, but on the street the GT3 doesn't stand a chance with those cars.

Originally Posted by CURI0

Awwww... I'll try and put a smile on that face.

That was the point of the list, none of the cars can beat the M3 in the single aspect people seem to focus on, which is straightline. Feel free to name cars with a smaller motor that beat the M3. How many cars with larger motors does the M3 beat? Hmmm, pretty impressive.

M3 is a low torque motor, low torque in relation to what? To larger motors? Forced induction motors? Seems impressive to me that a smaller motor makes far more efficient use of its power than the larger motors.

Never once did I say the M3 is the best car in the world, just the best car in its class. Did you miss where I mentioned the F430 and GT3? They are cars that take a similar power approach to the M3, yet, nothing is wrong with them? Are they low torque? I guess their owners should get GTR's or a Z06?

Is there any way you can be my friend? I think we would get along quite well once that stick was removed from your ***. It is a shame you can not have a discussion without resulting to e-thuggery, boy How many "*****es" will you throw in your next response? First one to use profanity 10 times wins.

Originally Posted by CURI0

If the M5 is boring you obviously don't know what you are doing behind the wheel.

Sorry, peak torque figures for internet racing are not what I look for in a car. The M5 with its lower torque spanks every 63 AMG, explain that. The GT3 with its lower torque beats up on most v8's. The F430, M6, gallardo, need I go on? If you just look at one aspect, torque, and not weight, gearing, shift speed, curve, etc. you are just as one dimensional as the C63.

The only Benz worth it from a purely drivers perspective would be the CLK63 Black Series. If you were interested in driving and your wallet could keep up, that would be the Benz you would have.

Originally Posted by 996TTDave

It's actually quite interesting, of all my two-thousand-some posts, your comment was the first one that caused me to use those choice of words - I suppose a well done is in order - e-thuggery was not the verdict, but if you re-read your post, i think you may understand where i was coming from

Torque is not the end all be all of a wonderful engine, i owned a e46 M3, low torque, amazing engine - same with my 360, not a ton of torque, but again... who cares - my E55 TON o'torque, ridiculously fast - BMW makes wonderful engines, without resorting to loads of torque

***** count in this post.... 0 - your turn, you got some work to do, im up by 2

Originally Posted by BLACKC63LSD

I agree, an M5 is not boring compared to your Dad's M3. Have you ever driven an M5? I highly doubt it from your response. I have driven a stick M5 and it was much more powerful then your Dad's 4.0 liter M3 but much less powerful then a C63. (4.7 v. 4.3, 0 to 60!)

The only cars you probably drove are your Mom's 318i and your Dad's M3. That would explain your "shock and awe" with the 297 lb ft of torque that an M3 puts out in comparison to a 318i. If you are so enamored by small engines that put out a lot of horsepower then I suggest driving your older sisters Honda S2000. Yes, a 2.0 liter with 240HP. A pure muscle car!

You are full of hot air since it's quite obvious that all of your points are from paper and not from the wheel! Take some time away from your monitor and test drive a C63, but make sure you wear a diaper so you don't soil yourself.

P.S. If my wife would not kick me out of the house or as you put it "wallet could keep up", the car I would have (which I have already driven for nearly 100 miles) is a Ford GT. The best car for the $$$! Yes, and it's 550lb ft of torque would spank every stock BMW known to mankind.