2008 m3 coupe with dct - c63 comparison?
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Yes track only the M3 brakes are fine for daily use I have the same on my 335i. Go to Mpost and look at some of the track posts and guys cook em on the first day. Not many E90 guys have tracked much so you dont hear about it. When I tracked my GT3 I saw many M3s (older) and always had brake upgrades. Its a fine track vehicle other wise. the single caliper design is cheap and not becoming of a $70K car. The old design does not dissipate heat well.
Also no race team uses that design.
I dont know when the M is coming out with the new Brembo package. the 135 already has them.
Yes track only the M3 brakes are fine for daily use I have the same on my 335i. Go to Mpost and look at some of the track posts and guys cook em on the first day. Not many E90 guys have tracked much so you dont hear about it. When I tracked my GT3 I saw many M3s (older) and always had brake upgrades. Its a fine track vehicle other wise. the single caliper design is cheap and not becoming of a $70K car. The old design does not dissipate heat well.
Also no race team uses that design.
I dont know when the M is coming out with the new Brembo package. the 135 already has them.
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Curio Dude youre a bit over the top and I defended you on another post.
Now here is the unbiased truth about these two cars. My history is I have had a 993 TT a 996 GT3 and a 997 GT3 tracked all of them. I am a HUGE BMW fan
I have a 4.8X5is Which I think is better than the 06 Cayenne S. a 335i and a Z4m.
First of all RIGHT NOW the C63 is more desirable here in California than the M3. The M3 can be had at invoice around 60K and the C63 is around MSRP.
In Bakersfield there are 7 M3s on the lot, The Mercedes dealer got ONE AMG C63 for the WHOLE year.
Curio you dont know much about the C63 you said it was a joke and the typical mercedes with the big motor. Thats not true. Its the first ground up design by AMG chasis suspension and motor. You would have known that if you had researched both cars instead of just bashing the AMG.
Because of a back problem and upcoming surgery I decided to sell my 07 GT3. I had my heart set on a M3. But the substandard Brake package bothered me. The car is untrackable without a pad and fluid change and it really needs a whole package upgrade. BMW knows this and signed on with Brembo and the 08 135i already has the better brake package. So I researched the other cars in this class and drove them all RS4, and the Lexus.
I drove all kinds of 08 M3s, the coupe the convertible the sedan. Over and over. I had settled on the white coupe carbon roof etc etc.
But a friend who has a Black series told me he had just got back from the AMG event in Vegas and told me about the C63. He said it was 80% Black series. So I went and test drove one. OMG!! on the street the power was unbelievable. The 140 lbs more torque was huge and easily noticable.
Also important to me was the AMG seats are much better than the M3 seats for MY back. The 335i seats are the second best in the world for MY back. Better than my Porsche seats. I just loved the whole AMG package. The Nav package and all the electronics is MUCH easier to use than the iDrive on my 335i. I still dont know how to use the 335i package and voice recognition is horrible on the BMW. The AMG is intuitive and I can operate everything.
Its better looking than the M3 which looks just like my 335i. The Suspension is as good as I have found on a Mercedes. The M3 is better but I think the C63 suspension is easily fixable. The only reason I can figure the M3 suspension is better is because the AMG has a much bigger motor over the front suspension and causes the push. I have the Performance package and its not as bad a push as I thought. Close to the more nimble M3. But on the street there is just not as much fun in the M3, it feels like it runs out of breath way before the AMG. The M3 needs to be driven like a GT3 High RPMs and paying attention to the RPMs because the lack of torque. The AMG is just much more fun to drive. The M3 takes a better driver so out of the box the AMG is more fun. The car in sport mode with the ESP on off or in sport is a hoot.
Curio you need to realize the AMG is as good as the M3. BMWs response with the Brembo package will be interesting BUt here is the deal- The AMG is the least expensive of the AMG models yet it has the same motor as the Black series. So its easily modded to 550 hp and 540 lbs of torque. I dont think ANY M3 will see 500hp.
The 335i is a better bargain. It has 90% of the M3 and can be modded to be an equivalent partner on the track. The M3 then is over priced even at 60K and it has components of the lesser model. The AMG has most of the components of the MORE expensive models and it has more bang for the buck. Either way you cant go wrong but I think more fun in the long run is in the AMG
Now here is the unbiased truth about these two cars. My history is I have had a 993 TT a 996 GT3 and a 997 GT3 tracked all of them. I am a HUGE BMW fan
I have a 4.8X5is Which I think is better than the 06 Cayenne S. a 335i and a Z4m.
First of all RIGHT NOW the C63 is more desirable here in California than the M3. The M3 can be had at invoice around 60K and the C63 is around MSRP.
In Bakersfield there are 7 M3s on the lot, The Mercedes dealer got ONE AMG C63 for the WHOLE year.
Curio you dont know much about the C63 you said it was a joke and the typical mercedes with the big motor. Thats not true. Its the first ground up design by AMG chasis suspension and motor. You would have known that if you had researched both cars instead of just bashing the AMG.
Because of a back problem and upcoming surgery I decided to sell my 07 GT3. I had my heart set on a M3. But the substandard Brake package bothered me. The car is untrackable without a pad and fluid change and it really needs a whole package upgrade. BMW knows this and signed on with Brembo and the 08 135i already has the better brake package. So I researched the other cars in this class and drove them all RS4, and the Lexus.
I drove all kinds of 08 M3s, the coupe the convertible the sedan. Over and over. I had settled on the white coupe carbon roof etc etc.
But a friend who has a Black series told me he had just got back from the AMG event in Vegas and told me about the C63. He said it was 80% Black series. So I went and test drove one. OMG!! on the street the power was unbelievable. The 140 lbs more torque was huge and easily noticable.
Also important to me was the AMG seats are much better than the M3 seats for MY back. The 335i seats are the second best in the world for MY back. Better than my Porsche seats. I just loved the whole AMG package. The Nav package and all the electronics is MUCH easier to use than the iDrive on my 335i. I still dont know how to use the 335i package and voice recognition is horrible on the BMW. The AMG is intuitive and I can operate everything.
Its better looking than the M3 which looks just like my 335i. The Suspension is as good as I have found on a Mercedes. The M3 is better but I think the C63 suspension is easily fixable. The only reason I can figure the M3 suspension is better is because the AMG has a much bigger motor over the front suspension and causes the push. I have the Performance package and its not as bad a push as I thought. Close to the more nimble M3. But on the street there is just not as much fun in the M3, it feels like it runs out of breath way before the AMG. The M3 needs to be driven like a GT3 High RPMs and paying attention to the RPMs because the lack of torque. The AMG is just much more fun to drive. The M3 takes a better driver so out of the box the AMG is more fun. The car in sport mode with the ESP on off or in sport is a hoot.
Curio you need to realize the AMG is as good as the M3. BMWs response with the Brembo package will be interesting BUt here is the deal- The AMG is the least expensive of the AMG models yet it has the same motor as the Black series. So its easily modded to 550 hp and 540 lbs of torque. I dont think ANY M3 will see 500hp.
The 335i is a better bargain. It has 90% of the M3 and can be modded to be an equivalent partner on the track. The M3 then is over priced even at 60K and it has components of the lesser model. The AMG has most of the components of the MORE expensive models and it has more bang for the buck. Either way you cant go wrong but I think more fun in the long run is in the AMG
The only faint reason to buy an M3 over the C63 is to track the car and how often is that going to happen, one day every other month? I don't understand why anyone would buy a car for normal everyday street use that needs to wind out to 5,000 + RPM's to enjoy it. The only thing your going to get with a car like that is a ticket. Just driving the C63 slow, it feels fast and powerful.
However, if Curio or anyone else is set on a BMW for everyday street use (which I have to admit in my opinion is a better quality vehicle but certainly not as fun to drive on the street as the C63) you should buy a 335i and mod it. (Yes, Curio I said that the BMW is a better made car! But it feels much slower then the Merc and is not nearly as fun to drive on the street). In addition, once the C63 is modded with just an ECU upgrade it will make the M3 feel like a 318i. BMW should have put at least 400+ lbs of torque in the M3. It is absolutely ridiculous that the 335i has more torque then an M3. What were they thinking?
You are going to see a lot of M3's stock piling at the dealers and I know from a friend who is a BMW salesmen that they were stock piling in June/July which was well before the economic crisis! Hopefully, BMW will step up to the plate and subvent the lease. If they bring the 36 month lease with minimum drive off down by at least $300/month to @ $950 they might have a chance to unload some of them.
Last edited by BLACKC63LSD; Oct 13, 2008 at 10:06 AM.
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agreed...i even agree, being a benz fan, that the m3 seems much higher quality than the c63, interior at least. That was a huge deciding factor for me.
is there any slight mod that can be done to increase the torque of the new m3?
thanks, for the explanation regarding the brakes, i appreciate it...its a real annoyance, it seems as though they really didnt think this car thru or do enough market research regarding the competition, as the m3 has been king forever, but i dunno how long that will last at this rate.
is there any slight mod that can be done to increase the torque of the new m3?
thanks, for the explanation regarding the brakes, i appreciate it...its a real annoyance, it seems as though they really didnt think this car thru or do enough market research regarding the competition, as the m3 has been king forever, but i dunno how long that will last at this rate.
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agreed...i even agree, being a benz fan, that the m3 seems much higher quality than the c63, interior at least. That was a huge deciding factor for me.
is there any slight mod that can be done to increase the torque of the new m3?
thanks, for the explanation regarding the brakes, i appreciate it...its a real annoyance, it seems as though they really didnt think this car thru or do enough market research regarding the competition, as the m3 has been king forever, but i dunno how long that will last at this rate.
is there any slight mod that can be done to increase the torque of the new m3?
thanks, for the explanation regarding the brakes, i appreciate it...its a real annoyance, it seems as though they really didnt think this car thru or do enough market research regarding the competition, as the m3 has been king forever, but i dunno how long that will last at this rate.
I have read and heard that there are a lot more mods for a 335i then the M3 but I am not an expert on this topic.
Last edited by BLACKC63LSD; Oct 13, 2008 at 10:13 AM.
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...the torque really bothers me, i just dont understand it...
however, i heard that the dct is significantly more fun to drive and impressive than the manual m3...i have no idea though
however, i heard that the dct is significantly more fun to drive and impressive than the manual m3...i have no idea though
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Curio Dude youre a bit over the top and I defended you on another post.
Now here is the unbiased truth about these two cars. My history is I have had a 993 TT a 996 GT3 and a 997 GT3 tracked all of them. I am a HUGE BMW fan
I have a 4.8X5is Which I think is better than the 06 Cayenne S. a 335i and a Z4m.
First of all RIGHT NOW the C63 is more desirable here in California than the M3. The M3 can be had at invoice around 60K and the C63 is around MSRP.
In Bakersfield there are 7 M3s on the lot, The Mercedes dealer got ONE AMG C63 for the WHOLE year.
Curio you dont know much about the C63 you said it was a joke and the typical mercedes with the big motor. Thats not true. Its the first ground up design by AMG chasis suspension and motor. You would have known that if you had researched both cars instead of just bashing the AMG.
Because of a back problem and upcoming surgery I decided to sell my 07 GT3. I had my heart set on a M3. But the substandard Brake package bothered me. The car is untrackable without a pad and fluid change and it really needs a whole package upgrade. BMW knows this and signed on with Brembo and the 08 135i already has the better brake package. So I researched the other cars in this class and drove them all RS4, and the Lexus.
I drove all kinds of 08 M3s, the coupe the convertible the sedan. Over and over. I had settled on the white coupe carbon roof etc etc.
But a friend who has a Black series told me he had just got back from the AMG event in Vegas and told me about the C63. He said it was 80% Black series. So I went and test drove one. OMG!! on the street the power was unbelievable. The 140 lbs more torque was huge and easily noticable.
Also important to me was the AMG seats are much better than the M3 seats for MY back. The 335i seats are the second best in the world for MY back. Better than my Porsche seats. I just loved the whole AMG package. The Nav package and all the electronics is MUCH easier to use than the iDrive on my 335i. I still dont know how to use the 335i package and voice recognition is horrible on the BMW. The AMG is intuitive and I can operate everything.
Its better looking than the M3 which looks just like my 335i. The Suspension is as good as I have found on a Mercedes. The M3 is better but I think the C63 suspension is easily fixable. The only reason I can figure the M3 suspension is better is because the AMG has a much bigger motor over the front suspension and causes the push. I have the Performance package and its not as bad a push as I thought. Close to the more nimble M3. But on the street there is just not as much fun in the M3, it feels like it runs out of breath way before the AMG. The M3 needs to be driven like a GT3 High RPMs and paying attention to the RPMs because the lack of torque. The AMG is just much more fun to drive. The M3 takes a better driver so out of the box the AMG is more fun. The car in sport mode with the ESP on off or in sport is a hoot.
Curio you need to realize the AMG is as good as the M3. BMWs response with the Brembo package will be interesting BUt here is the deal- The AMG is the least expensive of the AMG models yet it has the same motor as the Black series. So its easily modded to 550 hp and 540 lbs of torque. I dont think ANY M3 will see 500hp.
The 335i is a better bargain. It has 90% of the M3 and can be modded to be an equivalent partner on the track. The M3 then is over priced even at 60K and it has components of the lesser model. The AMG has most of the components of the MORE expensive models and it has more bang for the buck. Either way you cant go wrong but I think more fun in the long run is in the AMG
Now here is the unbiased truth about these two cars. My history is I have had a 993 TT a 996 GT3 and a 997 GT3 tracked all of them. I am a HUGE BMW fan
I have a 4.8X5is Which I think is better than the 06 Cayenne S. a 335i and a Z4m.
First of all RIGHT NOW the C63 is more desirable here in California than the M3. The M3 can be had at invoice around 60K and the C63 is around MSRP.
In Bakersfield there are 7 M3s on the lot, The Mercedes dealer got ONE AMG C63 for the WHOLE year.
Curio you dont know much about the C63 you said it was a joke and the typical mercedes with the big motor. Thats not true. Its the first ground up design by AMG chasis suspension and motor. You would have known that if you had researched both cars instead of just bashing the AMG.
Because of a back problem and upcoming surgery I decided to sell my 07 GT3. I had my heart set on a M3. But the substandard Brake package bothered me. The car is untrackable without a pad and fluid change and it really needs a whole package upgrade. BMW knows this and signed on with Brembo and the 08 135i already has the better brake package. So I researched the other cars in this class and drove them all RS4, and the Lexus.
I drove all kinds of 08 M3s, the coupe the convertible the sedan. Over and over. I had settled on the white coupe carbon roof etc etc.
But a friend who has a Black series told me he had just got back from the AMG event in Vegas and told me about the C63. He said it was 80% Black series. So I went and test drove one. OMG!! on the street the power was unbelievable. The 140 lbs more torque was huge and easily noticable.
Also important to me was the AMG seats are much better than the M3 seats for MY back. The 335i seats are the second best in the world for MY back. Better than my Porsche seats. I just loved the whole AMG package. The Nav package and all the electronics is MUCH easier to use than the iDrive on my 335i. I still dont know how to use the 335i package and voice recognition is horrible on the BMW. The AMG is intuitive and I can operate everything.
Its better looking than the M3 which looks just like my 335i. The Suspension is as good as I have found on a Mercedes. The M3 is better but I think the C63 suspension is easily fixable. The only reason I can figure the M3 suspension is better is because the AMG has a much bigger motor over the front suspension and causes the push. I have the Performance package and its not as bad a push as I thought. Close to the more nimble M3. But on the street there is just not as much fun in the M3, it feels like it runs out of breath way before the AMG. The M3 needs to be driven like a GT3 High RPMs and paying attention to the RPMs because the lack of torque. The AMG is just much more fun to drive. The M3 takes a better driver so out of the box the AMG is more fun. The car in sport mode with the ESP on off or in sport is a hoot.
Curio you need to realize the AMG is as good as the M3. BMWs response with the Brembo package will be interesting BUt here is the deal- The AMG is the least expensive of the AMG models yet it has the same motor as the Black series. So its easily modded to 550 hp and 540 lbs of torque. I dont think ANY M3 will see 500hp.
The 335i is a better bargain. It has 90% of the M3 and can be modded to be an equivalent partner on the track. The M3 then is over priced even at 60K and it has components of the lesser model. The AMG has most of the components of the MORE expensive models and it has more bang for the buck. Either way you cant go wrong but I think more fun in the long run is in the AMG
Are you getting a DCT cab for 60k? How many trim levels of the M3 are there? Be specific in what you are referring to, blanket statements about the M3 are not accurate. My local dealer has 5 C63's, is the C63 not hot anymore? Has the thought crossed your mind that perhaps the economy is slow as a whole? Tying the M3 to the economy is... just stupid.
I am tracking my car in a few weeks so I will get back to you on the brakes. From my driving so far, I haven't had any issues with them and I drive the car hard. I am just speaking from experience.
The M3 seats are better for me, but an irrelevant and subjective point.
The M3 looks like a 335 just like a C63 looks like a C 350.
You don't think any M3 will see 500 hp? People crossed 500 hp in the M3 a while ago. With boost 600 hp has already been crossed, the sky is the limit. These same comments were said about the E46 M3, where is it now power wise and where are the C class AMG's that competed with it?
The 335 being 90% of the M3 is just kind of dumb. Is a 997 with a supercharger 90% of a GT3? I don't think so, not to mention DCT is not available in the 335 yet. I would rather have a high revving v8 than a turbo 6 cylinder. I am also the kind of guy that would take a GT3 over a 997 turbo.
I think the C63 is the better car for YOU, the M3 is the better car for me. The C63 is not faster, does not handle better, and does not brake as well. The M3 has better feedback and a better transmission. The M3 is renowned by automotive press worldwide. I think it is more fun to have great steering feedback and handling and have a car that can be fun at 5 mph and 155 mph.
That does not mean the C63 is bad, it is not for me or I would have already bought it.
Last edited by CURI0; Oct 13, 2008 at 04:07 PM.
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GO TEST DRIVE THE CARS. All the typing in the world won't make a decision for you.
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Congrats on your purchase. What it all boils down to is personal preference? Some people find loads of torque fun and some people find a proper manual (6 speed or DCT) more fun than an automatic. Enjoy.
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thanks a lot.
i wanted to thank all of you guys for your input and help, i know i have asked a crap load of questions, and without this forum probably would have bought a c63 or an infiniti without even trying the dct. in the end i preferred the m3. i just put my deposit and confirmed my hold, as the dealers are now closed, but will go this friday to get it, hopefully.
i wanted to thank all of you guys for your input and help, i know i have asked a crap load of questions, and without this forum probably would have bought a c63 or an infiniti without even trying the dct. in the end i preferred the m3. i just put my deposit and confirmed my hold, as the dealers are now closed, but will go this friday to get it, hopefully.
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Dream on the M3 is the slower car - not one person is agreeing with you in this thread. You should just quit now, it's becoming a waste of your time. The C63 is the faster and more desirable car. Your argument is worthless and nobody is buying it, not to mention nobody really cares what you think anymore being that you attack everyone and try to rub your senseless BS into their faces.
As for there being C63's on the lot, there are absolutely none here at any of my local dealers. They had one a few weeks ago but it was sold almost instantly. I highly doubt your local dealer has 7, actually I'm almost positive they don't just because most dealers do not get that kind of allocation. Despite the market as a whole slowing down many people can still afford $70,000 cars. That's always been the case, even back in the 1930's, while some where living on bread and water others were buying Rolls Royces.
Last edited by Mr.PS; Oct 14, 2008 at 03:56 AM.
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Keep beleiving in your own lies, oh ya and I thought you were all about real world expereince vs magazine racing?
Dream on the M3 is the slower car - not one person is agreeing with you in this thread. You should just quit now, it's becoming a waste of your time. The C63 is the faster and more desirable car. Your argument is worthless and nobody is buying it, not to mention nobody really cares what you think anymore being that you attack everyone and try to rub your senseless BS into their faces.
As for there being C63's on the lot, there are absolutely none here at any of my local dealers. They had one a few weeks ago but it was sold almost instantly. I highly doubt your local dealer has 7, actually I'm almost positive they don't just because most dealers do not get that kind of allocation.
Dream on the M3 is the slower car - not one person is agreeing with you in this thread. You should just quit now, it's becoming a waste of your time. The C63 is the faster and more desirable car. Your argument is worthless and nobody is buying it, not to mention nobody really cares what you think anymore being that you attack everyone and try to rub your senseless BS into their faces.
As for there being C63's on the lot, there are absolutely none here at any of my local dealers. They had one a few weeks ago but it was sold almost instantly. I highly doubt your local dealer has 7, actually I'm almost positive they don't just because most dealers do not get that kind of allocation.
I am meeting up on November 1st with guys from Mbworld to drag race at California Speedway. The results will be posted, I am sure the C63 is going to absolutely destroy me
Don't be surprised when I remind you of this post.If you actually did have any real world experience you would realize the cars are so close in straight line performance it will come down to the driver. I am speaking specifically of the DCT M3, but I mean, you know all about it so I won't waste your time. I like how you post desire as a fact, that is cute
To think you know what everyone desires, a special talent indeed.Yes, SOME people still can afford these cars, not as MANY as last year. I am guessing you are not an economics professor?
Last edited by CURI0; Oct 14, 2008 at 04:27 AM.
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i am not trying to support a lost cause or anything, but was just reading this, and thought i might as well put in the thread its from motortrend, so bias will obviously be an issue, but intresting nonetheless.
With the DCT, the 414-hp M3 closes the straight-line performance gap to the sturm-und-drang 451-hp Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG. It'll run wheel-to-wheel with the thundering Mercedes to 60 mph and is a tenth faster to 100 mph. Quicker acceleration off the line gets the gruntmeister Benz to the end of the quarter in a tenth of a second less, but the trap speeds are virtually identical.
http://motortrend.automotive.com/781...ive/index.html
With the DCT, the 414-hp M3 closes the straight-line performance gap to the sturm-und-drang 451-hp Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG. It'll run wheel-to-wheel with the thundering Mercedes to 60 mph and is a tenth faster to 100 mph. Quicker acceleration off the line gets the gruntmeister Benz to the end of the quarter in a tenth of a second less, but the trap speeds are virtually identical.
http://motortrend.automotive.com/781...ive/index.html