2008 m3 coupe with dct - c63 comparison?
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it got pretty heated in here.
both the m3 and c63 are good, but ultimately are going to scratch two different (yet somewhat similar) itches. one is a big displacement 'american' style v8, while the other is a high revving style v8; although the m3 v8 is still made like an american v8 (i.e. 90 degree dual plane cranks vs a single 180 degree plane crank in a ferrari).
being a former m3 owner and a having owned porsches (and currently still do), i dont mind low tq so long as its made up for with tq multiplication by gearing. my cayman S has 3.88 gears and has a broad tq curve which is for get up and go nearly anywhere in the rev range. not the fastest out there, even though its no slouch (low 13s bone stock 1/4 mile), but few cars will touch in in the corners (where the real fun is)! certainly not anything in its price range.
to the OP, drive both, assess what you need the car for an get what you enjoy better.
both the m3 and c63 are good, but ultimately are going to scratch two different (yet somewhat similar) itches. one is a big displacement 'american' style v8, while the other is a high revving style v8; although the m3 v8 is still made like an american v8 (i.e. 90 degree dual plane cranks vs a single 180 degree plane crank in a ferrari).
being a former m3 owner and a having owned porsches (and currently still do), i dont mind low tq so long as its made up for with tq multiplication by gearing. my cayman S has 3.88 gears and has a broad tq curve which is for get up and go nearly anywhere in the rev range. not the fastest out there, even though its no slouch (low 13s bone stock 1/4 mile), but few cars will touch in in the corners (where the real fun is)! certainly not anything in its price range.
to the OP, drive both, assess what you need the car for an get what you enjoy better.
Last edited by PorscheC4; Sep 30, 2008 at 02:28 PM.
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I really don't understand what the argument here is. I've driven both cars fairly recently. The M3 was great, I loved it - I fact I was set on it. I disliked the C63 for a few reasons, mostly the fact that it was a 4 door vs a coupe - which I prefer. After driving the C63 I was sold. Amazing traction breaking torque up to 35-40mph. Simply incredible incredible pull. The M3 lacked horse power and torque. It felt slow, too slow even for an M3. The C32 AMG did not feel faster the the E46 M3 - it felt the opposite. It didn't make that much low end torque. It was also incredibly cheap inside and out. The E46 was clearly the better car in every aspect.
I don't think anyone, even the M3 DCT owners are arguing that their car is faster then the C63. The C63 even stock is 2-3 car lengths faster then the M3. A simple ECU tune, headers, and exhaust put it up in the 500-530hp range where it will compete with and possibly surpass the M5 and E55/E63 due to it's weight.
The C63 runs 12.1 @ 116mph stock, the M3 is no where near that. Like I said, I don't take sides. I love BMW and am a current owner, but AMG takes the trophy home this time - even on the track. The performance package is simply incredible - it feels tighter and more nimble then the M3. The brakes are also much better.
Here is a video of the convertible DCT getting owned (The convertible is slightly heavier - the lighter coupe wouldn't make that big of a difference though, definitely not 2-3 car lengths different)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIT-5_D9jU
I don't think anyone, even the M3 DCT owners are arguing that their car is faster then the C63. The C63 even stock is 2-3 car lengths faster then the M3. A simple ECU tune, headers, and exhaust put it up in the 500-530hp range where it will compete with and possibly surpass the M5 and E55/E63 due to it's weight.
The C63 runs 12.1 @ 116mph stock, the M3 is no where near that. Like I said, I don't take sides. I love BMW and am a current owner, but AMG takes the trophy home this time - even on the track. The performance package is simply incredible - it feels tighter and more nimble then the M3. The brakes are also much better.
Here is a video of the convertible DCT getting owned (The convertible is slightly heavier - the lighter coupe wouldn't make that big of a difference though, definitely not 2-3 car lengths different)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIT-5_D9jU
Last edited by Mr.PS; Oct 4, 2008 at 03:17 AM.
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I really don't understand what the argument here is. I've driven both cars fairly recently. The M3 was great, I loved it - I fact I was set on it. I disliked the C63 for a few reasons, mostly the fact that it was a 4 door vs a coupe - which I prefer. After driving the C63 I was sold. Amazing traction breaking torque up to 35-40mph. Simply incredible incredible pull. The M3 lacked horse power and torque. It felt slow, too slow even for an M3. The C32 AMG did not feel faster the the E46 M3 - it felt the opposite. It didn't make that much low end torque. It was also incredibly cheap inside and out. The E46 was clearly the better car in every aspect.
I don't think anyone, even the M3 DCT owners are arguing that their car is faster then the C63. The C63 even stock is 2-3 car lengths faster then the M3. A simple ECU tune, headers, and exhaust put it up in the 500-530hp range where it will compete with and possibly surpass the M5 and E55/E63 due to it's weight.
The C63 runs 12.1 @ 116mph stock, the M3 is no where near that. Like I said, I don't take sides. I love BMW and am a current owner, but AMG takes the trophy home this time - even on the track. The performance package is simply incredible - it feels tighter and more nimble then the M3. The brakes are also much better.
Here is a video of the convertible DCT getting owned (The convertible is slightly heavier - the lighter coupe wouldn't make that big of a difference though, definitely not 2-3 car lengths different)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIT-5_D9jU[/media]
I don't think anyone, even the M3 DCT owners are arguing that their car is faster then the C63. The C63 even stock is 2-3 car lengths faster then the M3. A simple ECU tune, headers, and exhaust put it up in the 500-530hp range where it will compete with and possibly surpass the M5 and E55/E63 due to it's weight.
The C63 runs 12.1 @ 116mph stock, the M3 is no where near that. Like I said, I don't take sides. I love BMW and am a current owner, but AMG takes the trophy home this time - even on the track. The performance package is simply incredible - it feels tighter and more nimble then the M3. The brakes are also much better.
Here is a video of the convertible DCT getting owned (The convertible is slightly heavier - the lighter coupe wouldn't make that big of a difference though, definitely not 2-3 car lengths different)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgIT-5_D9jU[/media]
12.1 @ 116... downhill with a tailwind.
The cab from a stop is much closer, and the C63 gets the jump from a roll.
Regardless, what do you mean not that big of a difference vs. the coupe? The cab weighs 4154 pounds! The cab is HEAVIER than a C63. The coupe is ~500 pounds LIGHTER!
As a DCT owner, I am not arguing my car is faster than a C63, but I am arguing the C63 is faster with those 2-3 lengths vs. a manual M3 only (coupe). The DCT is just geared better and shifts quicker.
Since you like the M5board videos, here is the C63 getting destroyed by a DCT coupe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnRgTM4qvKM
Looks to me like 500 pounds makes a pretty big difference.
Last edited by CURI0; Oct 4, 2008 at 10:33 AM.
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Here we go again....
12.1 @ 116... downhill with a tailwind.
The cab from a stop is much closer, and the C63 gets the jump from a roll.
Regardless, what do you mean not that big of a difference vs. the coupe? The cab weighs 4154 pounds! The cab is HEAVIER than a C63. The coupe is ~500 pounds LIGHTER!
As a DCT owner, I am not arguing my car is faster than a C63, but I am arguing the C63 is faster with those 2-3 lengths vs. a manual M3 only (coupe). The DCT is just geared better and shifts quicker.
Since you like the M5board videos, here is the C63 getting destroyed by a DCT coupe: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnRgTM4qvKM[/media]
Looks to me like 500 pounds makes a pretty big difference.
12.1 @ 116... downhill with a tailwind.
The cab from a stop is much closer, and the C63 gets the jump from a roll.
Regardless, what do you mean not that big of a difference vs. the coupe? The cab weighs 4154 pounds! The cab is HEAVIER than a C63. The coupe is ~500 pounds LIGHTER!
As a DCT owner, I am not arguing my car is faster than a C63, but I am arguing the C63 is faster with those 2-3 lengths vs. a manual M3 only (coupe). The DCT is just geared better and shifts quicker.
Since you like the M5board videos, here is the C63 getting destroyed by a DCT coupe: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnRgTM4qvKM[/media]
Looks to me like 500 pounds makes a pretty big difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6qf83rLE80
M5boards is biased, obviously, it's a BMW forum. I'd like to see a C63 stock run with a stock M3 DCT from a 40mph roll up to 100mph. Show me one M3 DCT (stock) that will run 12.1@116mph. The DCT isn't that much quicker then the 6-speed is the person knows how to drive. It is a nice gearbox though, I won't lie. All of the SMG gearboxes in BMW's cars have been bliss!
[rant] 6speed really needs to fix the media tags to allow the embedding of videos[/rant]
Last edited by Mr.PS; Oct 4, 2008 at 05:31 PM.
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The C63 isn't less. The base price is lower, the base price is stripped. You can pick one up here for $64k, it will have 50% leatherette and 50% synthetic seats, no leather on the doors, no multimedia display, no LSD, no delimiter, nothing...
Fully optioned the C63 is around $73k
Fully optioned the C63 is around $73k
12.1@116 with a tail wind, sorry but you're again wrong. There is a video posted below for proof. The car is bone stock, you can hear the camera man say after the burnout. It's not running against a BMW or Audi - it's unbiased race track footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6qf83rLE80
M5boards is biased, obviously, it's a BMW forum. I'd like to see a C63 stock run with a stock M3 DCT from a 40mph roll up to 100mph. Show me one M3 DCT (stock) that will run 12.1@116mph. The DCT isn't that much quicker then the 6-speed is the person knows how to drive. It is a nice gearbox though, I won't lie. All of the SMG gearboxes in BMW's cars have been bliss!
[rant] 6speed really needs to fix the media tags to allow the embedding of videos[/rant]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6qf83rLE80
M5boards is biased, obviously, it's a BMW forum. I'd like to see a C63 stock run with a stock M3 DCT from a 40mph roll up to 100mph. Show me one M3 DCT (stock) that will run 12.1@116mph. The DCT isn't that much quicker then the 6-speed is the person knows how to drive. It is a nice gearbox though, I won't lie. All of the SMG gearboxes in BMW's cars have been bliss!
[rant] 6speed really needs to fix the media tags to allow the embedding of videos[/rant]
Last edited by Jmoney; Oct 4, 2008 at 07:46 PM.
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I guess you didn't read the additional Information on the Right it says "10/19/2008 Modern Horsepower C63 AMG with ECU/TCU tuning V1. More aggressive tuning to follow. Summit Motorsport Complex Norwalk OH." I guess that means the car is not stock sorry to inform you. Show me 1 stock C63 that can run 12.1@116mph cause this isn't one either. Also your sadly mistaken no manual driver in the world is good enough to match the DCT shifting despite what some people think. This thread is pretty funny, lol Just get whatever the F*uck you like. If you like Hi rev Low Tourqe Motors cool get that if you like High Tourqe low rev Motors cool get that. If you like High Tourqe/HP FI like me Cool get that. Fact is every car has its plus and minuses. I can say I prefer my 335 over the M3 because in a straightline it will crush an M3 but I have to spend extra money (although not alot) to get it to corner the same. The C63 just likes his Low End Tourqe feeling and thats cool if I really wanted a V8 I think I'd get the V8 I just dont believe any AMG Mercedes (cept Black series) is on par with M Division when it comes to handling but I do believe its a good contender in a straigtline
DCT is obviously very fast, but it's not that much faster then someone shifting who can drive. People are making it seem as though it will be 5+ car lengths faster then the manual driver... All in attempt to try to fool everyone into believing that the transmission will make their precious favorite the faster car - which it is not.
This argument isn't about what to get. It's about delusional M3 owners saying their car is equal with the C63 in terms of performance. It's not, period. There are numerous testimonials from owners and drivers (one being myself) of both cars that clearly prove the C63 is the faster car. It has nothing to do with being biased, liking high reving. or low reving better - it has to do with facts...
Even if, JUST IF, the M3 DCT was faster, with $2500 you can reflash the C63 ECU to yield the same amount of power the high end models with the 6.2L motor share (5xxhp). That's a whole 80hp more then the M3, for $2500. You will be lucky to find an exhaust system for the M3 for that much. Not to mention the C63 with ECU will absolutely obliterate the M3 in every gear, from a start, and from a roll.
The person in the video says "bone stock c63" after he excuses the people standing around him. Maybe it doesn't run 12.1@116 stock, but it's still faster and better handling (with performance package) then the M3. Maybe the M3 is more fun to some, but for me the tremendous pull and grunt of the C63 are more favorable; that's just my opinion. Something that the OP was looking for - peoples opinions.
DCT is obviously very fast, but it's not that much faster then someone shifting who can drive. People are making it seem as though it will be 5+ car lengths faster then the manual driver... All in attempt to try to fool everyone into believing that the transmission will make their precious favorite the faster car - which it is not.
This argument isn't about what to get. It's about delusional M3 owners saying their car is equal with the C63 in terms of performance. It's not, period. There are numerous testimonials from owners and drivers (one being myself) of both cars that clearly prove the C63 is the faster car. It has nothing to do with being biased, liking high reving. or low reving better - it has to do with facts...
Even if, JUST IF, the M3 DCT was faster, with $2500 you can reflash the C63 ECU to yield the same amount of power the high end models with the 6.2L motor share (5xxhp). That's a whole 80hp more then the M3, for $2500. You will be lucky to find an exhaust system for the M3 for that much. Not to mention the C63 with ECU will absolutely obliterate the M3 in every gear, from a start, and from a roll.
DCT is obviously very fast, but it's not that much faster then someone shifting who can drive. People are making it seem as though it will be 5+ car lengths faster then the manual driver... All in attempt to try to fool everyone into believing that the transmission will make their precious favorite the faster car - which it is not.
This argument isn't about what to get. It's about delusional M3 owners saying their car is equal with the C63 in terms of performance. It's not, period. There are numerous testimonials from owners and drivers (one being myself) of both cars that clearly prove the C63 is the faster car. It has nothing to do with being biased, liking high reving. or low reving better - it has to do with facts...
Even if, JUST IF, the M3 DCT was faster, with $2500 you can reflash the C63 ECU to yield the same amount of power the high end models with the 6.2L motor share (5xxhp). That's a whole 80hp more then the M3, for $2500. You will be lucky to find an exhaust system for the M3 for that much. Not to mention the C63 with ECU will absolutely obliterate the M3 in every gear, from a start, and from a roll.
Last edited by Jmoney; Oct 4, 2008 at 09:52 PM.
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In all comparisons I've read the C63 is Slower on the track then the M3 with just the manual I'm sure with the DCT its even worse. Also the DCT does make the M3 faster at least 2-3 car lengths faster because of the Extra gear and faster shifts and the fact that their is no power loss between shifts that's a fact so its not like its sorta faster its alot faster and I'm sure its good for 2-3mph in the 1/4 mile trap speeds. Thats a big difference in my opinion. And I know for a FACT the C63 isn't 5+ car lenghts faster then an M3 either so theres not reason to act like the C63 is God either. I can trap 116mph in a 335 also dont see me braggin about it 116mph traps is NICE but not the end all be all try something in the 125+mph and then your talking about being almost untouchable.
As for being faster on the track. Definitely - the C63 is slower. The performance package C63 though is a different story. The feel of the car is MUCH different. Some are even complaining about it being too stiff. It seems like that would help a lot with the mushy feeling of the C63 around corners.
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I never said the C63 is 5 car lengths faster - I'm not saying it's god either. I'm saying thats what M3 owners are trying to say the DCT gives them. I drove the 6-speed M3, so I can't comment on the DCT. I've driven the SMGIII equipped M5 and M6 though and it shifted very quickly.
As for being faster on the track. Definitely - the C63 is slower. The performance package C63 though is a different story. The feel of the car is MUCH different. Some are even complaining about it being too stiff. It seems like that would help a lot with the mushy feeling of the C63 around corners.
As for being faster on the track. Definitely - the C63 is slower. The performance package C63 though is a different story. The feel of the car is MUCH different. Some are even complaining about it being too stiff. It seems like that would help a lot with the mushy feeling of the C63 around corners.
More Fun on the Track: M3
More Fun on the Street: C63
Which Car is Faster: Who Cares, too close to matter.
Which Car Feels Faster: C63 by Far!
If you have not driven both cars, your opinion means nothing!
Any other questions????
Fair enough... I wanna run up against a C63 for ****s'n giggles interested??
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I've driven both and feel the same way. The performance package on the C63 is ridiculous though and I'd argue that it might be a tad more fun on the track, especially with the LSD, floating rotors, and tweaked AMG suspension.
LOL cool well PM me when your ready.