In theory, your racing quote would be correct, IF Ferrari actually incorporated anything they learned at the track into their roadcars. If you truly think that even in the Enzo you are shifting the way Schumacker does, you are fooling yourself.

The test in the new Road and Track is a copy of Euro magazine test, Quattroroute, in which, if you look around, you will find that the 430 actually posted a SLOWER time than several of the other cars after several attempts. At that point the ferrari techs stepped in and reworked the suspension settings. On the Nurburgring, Hockenheim, and Evo, the Gallardo, old and new handed the 430 its ***.

I do not base everything on style, if that was the case, Ferrari shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath as lamborghini.

Lets go through the 355 for example, a car I owned, and i believe you owned. At first, i found the styling to be ok. nothing spectacular, but just ok. Over time, it just grew boring. But lets get into th mechanicals.
1. Steering feel. Absolutely attrocious. Worst feel of any car inmo. So overly assisted its worse than a cadillac.
2. Brakes, mediocre at best.
3. Acceleration

4. transmission. Terrible, very reluctant and finicky, Ferrari continues this tradition to this day. I will say, 1 place where ferrari has Lambo beaten is in its F1 tranny, it is much better than Lambos egear. regardless, i would never buy a paddle shift.

5. build quality- terrible. ferrari has more orange peel than any other car maker ive seen. the interior is pitiful. it falls completely appart, center consoles melt, bubble, vents turn to mush, leather shrinks, seats get hard.

6. Cowl shake, hit a bump, and youd think you lost the motor out the back.

7. Sound. 355 sounded ok stock, great with a Tubi. But soo what? You make a ton of noise, you think you're going 200mph, but you are watching the civics taillights as they pull away.

All this, from what many ferrarista consider one of the greatest cars ferrari ever built. What a prize!

A gallardo cant shake a 996Turbo? Well according to the lap times on the nurburgring and Hockenheim it sure does. As for the 997, well, in the last test from Autocar, which included the 430 (the 430 placed dead last), the gallardo placed 1st. the gallardo also beat the 997TT in your above mentioned Road and track test. But, in regards to the new 997Turbo, hell, youll get no arguement from me, thats a car to be reckoned with. A 360/430.... NOT.

Continueing, you say you cant compare a gallardo to a 360 (I agree, there is no comparison) due to the different generations of the cars. But yet, you try and compare the Enzo ( built in 03) to the Murci ( built in 2001 as an 02). but lets look at things:
lamborghini lineage: miura-Countach-Diablo- murcielago. Each car directly replaced the other.

Ferrari lineage- Daytona-512bb-testarossa-550-575-599 . yet again, each car directly replaced the other. The ENZO, nor for that matter the F40, or the F50 are anywhere in that lineup. These are special edition, limited production cars. These cars are not considered competition to the Lambo, but as usual, when any ferrari guy gets his *** handed to him, he jumps with the an Enzo can beat that line. Well i agree, it can. i agree the f40 is a great car. So if you own an f40, or an Enzo, in the ferrari world you have a leg to stand on. ferrari builds 99.9% subpar automobiles, the other .1% gives the owners of those cars something to dream about.

and yes, i do agree, an Enzo will probobly beat a murci Lp640 on track, but why do you think that Ferrari has strictly specified no NURBURGRING OR HOCKENHEIM tests for the Enzo? Hmmmmm do you think they dont want to be embarrased by other less costly cars like the Carrera Gt beating them?

Ferrari is for posears who hide behind racing victories which have nothing to do with them, or their cars.

 

it 100% dead true. no ifs ands or butts.

 

We're definitely splitting hairs here, and your opinions on Ferraris, such as sound and steering feel, do not give much in past a completely subjective point of view. I've driven a Gallardo before, and in all honesty it felt like a very fast audi, with the 4 wheel drive being too obtrusive.

There are many ferrari owners out there who are poseurs, but its tough to argue that all lamborghini owners are real drivers, who just buy the car because they love it. I mean, take a look at some of the other forum threads, with people posing women on top of their cars.

I'd also hardly call myself a poseur - I am as geniuine in my interest of cars as anyone else here. That comment also doesn't get you far since you are a former ferrari owner anyway. Be careful when you try to generalize all ferrari owners. Otherwise you might get grouped with "all Hummer" drivers - hardly archetypal car fans.

 

I hate my Hummer, but my wife likes it.

And yes, I had ferraris, but I learned from my mistakes.

Also want to point out that I wasnt indirectly calling you a poseur, just a broad statement towards most ferrari owners.

As for woman posing on cars.... nothing wrong with that!

 

Can you find where either have beaten the CGT? Also, the 996 GT2 ran 7:42 which is up there as well. I happen to like both ferrari and lambo, and love porsches. i think the gallardo is sick and the murci just is odd looking to me, i like the f430 a lot too.

 

[quote=allanlambo]In theory, your racing quote would be correct, IF Ferrari actually incorporated anything they learned at the track into their roadcars. If you truly think that even in the Enzo you are shifting the way Schumacker does, you are fooling yourself.

The test in the new Road and Track is a copy of Euro magazine test, Quattroroute, in which, if you look around, you will find that the 430 actually posted a SLOWER time than several of the other cars after several attempts. At that point the ferrari techs stepped in and reworked the suspension settings. On the Nurburgring, Hockenheim, and Evo, the Gallardo, old and new handed the 430 its ***.

I do not base everything on style, if that was the case, Ferrari shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breath as lamborghini.

Lets go through the 355 for example, a car I owned, and i believe you owned. At first, i found the styling to be ok. nothing spectacular, but just ok. Over time, it just grew boring. But lets get into th mechanicals.
1. Steering feel. Absolutely attrocious. Worst feel of any car inmo. So overly assisted its worse than a cadillac.
2. Brakes, mediocre at best.
3. Acceleration

4. transmission. Terrible, very reluctant and finicky, Ferrari continues this tradition to this day. I will say, 1 place where ferrari has Lambo beaten is in its F1 tranny, it is much better than Lambos egear. regardless, i would never buy a paddle shift.

5. build quality- terrible. ferrari has more orange peel than any other car maker ive seen. the interior is pitiful. it falls completely appart, center consoles melt, bubble, vents turn to mush, leather shrinks, seats get hard.

6. Cowl shake, hit a bump, and youd think you lost the motor out the back.

7. Sound. 355 sounded ok stock, great with a Tubi. But soo what? You make a ton of noise, you think you're going 200mph, but you are watching the civics taillights as they pull away.

All this, from what many ferrarista consider one of the greatest cars ferrari ever built. What a prize!

A gallardo cant shake a 996Turbo? Well according to the lap times on the nurburgring and Hockenheim it sure does. As for the 997, well, in the last test from Autocar, which included the 430 (the 430 placed dead last), the gallardo placed 1st. the gallardo also beat the 997TT in your above mentioned Road and track test. But, in regards to the new 997Turbo, hell, youll get no arguement from me, thats a car to be reckoned with. A 360/430.... NOT.

Continueing, you say you cant compare a gallardo to a 360 (I agree, there is no comparison) due to the different generations of the cars. But yet, you try and compare the Enzo ( built in 03) to the Murci ( built in 2001 as an 02). but lets look at things:
lamborghini lineage: miura-Countach-Diablo- murcielago. Each car directly replaced the other.

Ferrari lineage- Daytona-512bb-testarossa-550-575-599 . yet again, each car directly replaced the other. The ENZO, nor for that matter the F40, or the F50 are anywhere in that lineup. These are special edition, limited production cars. These cars are not considered competition to the Lambo, but as usual, when any ferrari guy gets his *** handed to him, he jumps with the an Enzo can beat that line. Well i agree, it can. i agree the f40 is a great car. So if you own an f40, or an Enzo, in the ferrari world you have a leg to stand on. ferrari builds 99.9% subpar automobiles, the other .1% gives the owners of those cars something to dream about.

and yes, i do agree, an Enzo will probobly beat a murci Lp640 on track, but why do you think that Ferrari has strictly specified no NURBURGRING OR HOCKENHEIM tests for the Enzo? Hmmmmm do you think they dont want to be embarrased by other less costly cars like the Carrera Gt beating them?

I think you made some good points. I think the test where the 997TT got beaten was a fluke because there have been tests where it has been driven better than that test, and it is faster on the 'ring' than the g. It ran a 7:40 thus far i believe. I def dont think the enzo is anything special. CGT any day in my book. I like the G but i think it is just outperofrmed by the 997TT. just wait for the TURBO S and GT2 which will crush all the competition. And dont forget the GT3. Im not trying to put down the G, but thats the way i feel. I actually want to buy a gallardo in a few years to join my porsche as the other sports car I have.

 

[quote=PorscheC4]calm down. you know youre not going to convince anyone here on this board just because you are writing the most.. i have horror stories myself of lambos that have only caused heartache so nothing any one side claims will convince the other. dont realy know why this thread is still going on

 

allan this is not meant to put down you in particular. actually i think your comments about ferrari, porsche and lambo are some of the more insightful ones. there are some lambo owners here though who are morons no "ifs ands or buts"

 

[quote=PorscheC4]So far, there have been several tests of the 997TT vs others, and unfortunately, on track it has lost in all them to the Gallardo. Well maybe not unfortunately .

As for the CGT, I would hope it outperforms the Gallardo. 2 different catagories of cars. As for the Turbo and the turbo S crushing the competition, we shall see. The new Murci Lp640 is supposedly CGT fast with brakes to match. As for the quoted Gt2 and Cgt lap times, i dont really take those into consideration. not really fair inmo, to compare lap times set by Walter Rohl, with thousands of hours of experience behind the wheels of these cars, to that of Horst from Sport Auto, who is a magazine test driver paid to click off a few fast laps in each car. Sort of like when Chevy sent their crew to the Ring for 2 weeks, and tweaked and changed the C6 Z06 until it finally ran a quick laptime.

As for the 997Tt vs the G in acceleration, I think in a dead stop the 997TT has an incredible launch, and would most likely win. But, the 997TT seems to have a very slow trap speed in the 1/4, which to me means its performance is all in its launch. Autocar actually confirmed my thoughts when they raced a Gallardo and 997TT side by side, and said they were pretty much dead even.

 

I definitely agree with that! Ive met some lambo guys who are complete tools, but unfortunately in the ferrari crowd out of say 100, maybe 2 would be ok.

 

[quote=allanlambo]I dont particularly find the trap speeds of the gallardo to be too high either. In the most recent test i saw, the 997TT and z06 both ran 11.7@121. I havnt seen a gallardo trap higher than 116. im not saying its bad, because i love them, a neighbor down the street from me has a pearl white and it looks and sounds great. i want to buy one in a few years when i can. i would give the edge to the 997TT in trap tho.

Just for reference:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...911-turbo.html

Anyway, im excited for the turbo s and GT2.

 

"First Place: The Sports-Car World Cup: 2006 Ferrari F430"
"On the track, the F430 was the slowest of our group"

Ok, have I missed something or has the Ferrari PR department succeeded so god that just by naming a car Ferrari makes journalist declare it the sportcar of them all. Last I checkt a sports car combine fast acceleration and track the fastes time. neither of this is won by the ferrari.
No, it won becouse of its name and sound noise and that is it.

 

I think you made some very good and obvious points. Ones which bring up questions as to how much of an italian bias there was in that article. I think overall, the 997TT(i would say turbo s and GT2 also, but they are not out yet) and the gallardo are probably the worlds best supercars under $200k hands down. The ferraris are just too prissy as a lot of people like to put it. porsches and lambos to me are just made to drive and have that thrill inherent in every car they build. not to knock ferrari, but the other two always have their number.

 

[quote=PorscheC4]thats true, most magazines got 117-118 in a gallardo, but thats an early Gallardo. As we recently verified on the dyno, an 06 makes 40rwhp more than the 04/05's.

Anyway, as for the 997TT and the Z06 trapping 121, sorry to say, but unfortunately, my moneys on the chevy.

 

As for an italian fact, it has been a long standing rumor, that if a magazine gets a ferrari test car and prints an unfavorable review, no more ferraris for you to test. And ferrari articles sell magazines.