I responded to Speed21 one last time with facts about our post counts since he accused me of always posting here and have no having no life.(funny..that's what my unsigned neg rep said..get a life)

and to show him I had a car.

I haven't got caught up in any of this rep BS *****en and moaning from the beginning. I pointed out once I got a neg rep I didn't understand. (among several I got in this thread). Along with many positives reps.

I tend to agree with Churchill when it comes to reps and voicing your opinion.

Bye.

 

lol, sounds like same angry poster, this was mine, "You dont get it dude. Rich aussies should mind their manners instead of playing the smart ***"

I had a good laugh.

 

Second that sentiment... What do you guys get for having more REP POINTS? Maybe I should spend more time on this website...

But back to GTR stuff... here's a new video from MotorTrend USA... pretty cool...

 

Don't get carried away bud, this is not the GT-R section.

 

Point taken. But if the thread fits... just passing some time

 

Wow i nearly missed those contradictory remarks. Too funny. So you think I'm the only one around here that thinks you haven't got a life? . Mentioned as a closing comment to the glaringly obvious.... but as per usual instead of accepting the reality in the comment you once again take the opportunity to fit me up elsewhere. Wow! Bravo! What a player!! With this level of BS You ought to be in politics BW!

And all of your video props and pissing contests?....good lord man i can't believe the level of your insecurity..... and love the bit about you asking for comments or advice too. I mean that is freaking truly. I mean please. Enough already.......you're killing me with this....truly....no more ego props.

I agree with HeavyChevy that it's way overdue to get back to whatever sense is left in this silly 991 vs GTR thread.. and, time for you to stop squealing over all your silly damn negs in a bid to get yourself more greens (if that's humanly possible)...all while leaving others swinging in the process. If there was an award on how to work the rep system to your advantage you'd be getting an Oscar! Gotta hand it to you BW....played like a true pro.

"bye"....can i use that one as a closer too

PS. BW. From this point onward I'm done with your nonsense so please don't respond to anymore of my "worthless posts".

Now. Time to get back to topic!!!!!!!!!

Re these two cars, as I've indicated previously the race was a farce and just showmanship. One need only to have drawn upon the official nurburgring times for these cars to see that. The 991 with all the new goodies inc PDK has the same ring time as 997GT3.2 which is off the pace of the GTR. A fair match up would be a 991tt (when it arrives).

I would agree it does show how good the 991 is, however it would be wishful thinking having the 991 match the GTR.

As the GTR is a very heavy car, on a tight circuit the 991 could well own it though, but on a circuit with some long straights and curves the GTR would leave more than 3 seconds I suspect.

I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

Thanks for posting this...but it should be as HC says in the gt-r forum.

It's amazing what these machines can do on a track. The best money I spent was on my 997, PSDS and a driving coach for the track.

I suggest all 991 owners at some time experience you car on a track. It's fairly safe (esp in lower run groups), thrilling and you can meet all types of great people.

 

I agree wholeheartedly on the first point - 991TT vs GT-R. As always. And I EXPECT the 991TT to win. It will be a sad day if it doesn't (which I really don't expect will come).

If you are still commenting on the weight of the GT-R holding back performance, I'd suggest you've never driven one. The ONLY things that suffer because of the weight are brakes and tires. It is incredibly balanced, and moves like cars that weigh hundreds less (and cost thousands more). I'm not suggesting that less weight would not help handling, I'm suggesting that lap times do not really suffer simply because of the excess weight.

I'd suggest that a course that has many turns (barring auto-x, and estimating that speeds of over 60mph will be reached), the GT-R would come out on top of many comparisons. It has been identified, and confirmed, that it is easier to extract more from the GT-R than any other car. For some, this is bad. For others (including myself), this is good.

And I'm on board with heavy's comments regarding gear selection and apparent drifting. I wonder if the laps he is shown drifting are his hotlaps that were times. Regarding production of a video, sometimes the weird angles and powerslides are taken out of context of the timed lap (which is usually cleaner). I'd hope Tiff doesn't consider that the best way to lower a laptime.

In regards to traction control on the GT-R - what I've gathered about his driving style and the GT-R, Tiff would fall asleep if he put the car in 'R' mode. It might actually get a better time, but it would bore him to death if he couldn't powerslide through a corner (which appears to be his preference for fun).

If you want sliding, RWD always > AWD. If you want fast lap times AWD + DCT > RWD + Single clutch.

This was a horrible comparison, but necessary to generate interest in EVO magazine, because the 991S is the fastest 991 out so far, right? Nobody should remotely compare these two (other than cost, but then why not throw a ZR-1 and Vantage in there as well).

 

The GT-R isn't really all that great of a balanced car. It just uses electronics to correct the results of the imbalances. That's why none of the race cars based on the true chassis have done anything. Braking on the inside front wheel to counter the understeer and rotate the car and then switching more power to front to pull it out of the turns. It's unnatural and builds some very bad driving habits. Watch the videos of them being driven hard, they are lurching all over the place and many of the drivers start to rely on this instead of learning how to drive properly.

That's why myself and many people don't like it, The true handling of the chassis is masked behind a bunch of gizmos. Not to mention the fact that having to do cool down laps for brakes, tires, engine and trans temps every few laps is annoying.

 

I like the comparison between the 2 cars. Why? Price! If Porsche wants to charge $125-$130K for close to their base model then they become a target. It will only be good for the brand. I complained about their pricing in another thread. Porsche definitely has the heritage and it is obvious that the 991 is a well thought out addition to the pedigree. However, I think you have a few different people that jump in on these threads. First you have the guys that actually know how to drive cars hard and can appreciate what each car brings to the table. THEN you have the guys that are as vocal as the track crowd but only bought their 991 because they always wanted a Porsche. Makes it tough for any GT-R to live up to their expectations even if it hits 0-60 in 1 second!

I like variety in my life and will continue to sample different brands. The GT3 is my preference from Porsche (after owning a modified 996 Turbo), but I love the GT-R as a daily driver and nice ride for occassional track duty.

 

Then spend a couple hundred on track pads (like every other track-goer does), about a thousand (or so) on track tires (like everybody else who goes to the track), and a couple thousand on a trans cooler (that also cools engine), and call it a day...

I know, I know, I know... on the Porsche Turbo (which will cost a bit more than the cooler difference) you may not have to do this (we know the existing PDK does not have this cooling issue - but we also know the 2012/13 GT-R doesn't have the same overheating tendencies as the previous models either).

Which all of this is irrelevant to the original post, and any related topic that was brought up.

 

That won't change the false sense of security that you actually saved that spin instead of the car. Mushy pedal is not going to go away with just pads, not for extended sessions. And the tires will not be happy with fast laps under a bohemoth of a car, not matter what kind they are.

It's still all just bandaids.

Trust, me, the same rules apply for the TT, and I'm not happy about all of the incoming nannies on the 991's and PDK everywhere. This is not brand specific, it's more of an ideology.

It's not all that off topic as this is why Tiff found the 991 more rewarding to drive. For the reasons I'm stating. Drive a true race car, that may be slower than many of todays supercar performers and you may go slower, but you will have TONS MORE FUN!!! That's why ultimate lap times at the sacrifice of driver involvement even if faster will never beat out raw car/driver interaction.

EVER.

 

This is to some extent what some of the us that are not AS thrilled about the 991 are saying. And we get hammered for it because we are dissing the car and avoiding progress and technology.

Its a different feel for the 991 vs the 997 vs the gt-r. What is better to a driver depends on what they are looking for.

I will say however that as i read more comments from established drivers I am more and more convinced that the 911 raw feel is there for the 991 when you really push it.

 

I've already mentioned earlier, that I have plenty of fun in a $3k Miata.

Of course Tiff liked the RWD C2S more, he can drift, be out of gear, do burn outs, and other stuff that is slow, too.

As far as race prepping a GT-R, Mike Skeen may be able to chime in. I know that my GT-R gets me to work everyday, me the wife and my younger two to the playground (with the youngest's bicycle in the trunk), around VIR when I please, quicker than everything else on track, except a GTR - an Ultima GTR... Although I wasn't passed, I'm sure I would have been had I been closer to the driver when he entered the track.

Please keep in mind that we all know that purists will not prefer the driving experience of the GT-R. The Nissan was engineered to be driven by anyone and EVERYONE, and be among the world's fastest while doing it. So far, it accomplished everything it has set out to do.

 

Though, how hard one has to push it is a key question. As I've said before, I find that I have to drive the Cayman R considerably faster than the 997S to get the same level of involvement and fun. This testifies to the stability of the Cayman's design, but in practical terms it increases the risk of speeding tickets and bad consequences in the event of a crash. I think a similar comparison applies to the 991 vs 997.

Of course higher speeds are attainable on the track, but then how much time will people typically spend on the road vs track? Since pretty much none of us is actually racing, I'll continue to argue that it's not about max speed, but rather about max fun and development of driving skill. If luxury, looks, cachet, etc. are factors too, that's fine, but then we're moving away from pure performance driving into other areas.