Please understand that this:

And this:
Are two COMPLETELY different explanations...

Speed - your view appears extremely snobbish and baseless (full of yourself and what YOU feel is important). I said before, I have no problem with you feel it is important, but don't try to push this as fact.

Try to refrain from being apparently shallow in the future... not that it bothers me personally....but moreso for your own sake, and the image of the owners of the 911 car. You give it a bad look being so snobby to such matters.

 

Manifold, the issues i mentioned are real. I have heard certain GTR owners admit the quality of trim materials, duco and other aspects of the car are not on the same planet as Porsche quality wise. Many are quick to excuse these differences by saying you get what you pay for. There is also the design issue. It's no raving glamor particularly alongside a Porsche or Ferrari. It may still get looks, but mainly due to the knowledge and recognition of the cars performance credentials....and not because of it's astonishing beauty.

Durability is another area which has been mentioned and whilst Porsche certainly has its own set of issues many are unconvinced the Nissan can take the same level of punishment over the longer haul. This is where weight is also relevant too. If you feel the Nissan is on par quality and finish wise then maybe you need your eyes examined (no offence). Either that or I and many others do.

Additionally, put a GTR on a hoist and put a Porsche turbo on a hoist and tell me you can't see differences in the quality of components, under body construction, general manufacture and so on. The GTR is a high performance car clearly built for a price and certain things evidence that. I'm not saying it won't hold together but physically there are noticeable differences when you take the time and trouble to look.

 

This Porsche vs. Brand X discussion has been going on for around 50 years (most often, Corvette was the x). I don't recall ever hearing anyone say "I give up, you win, you're right, your car is better!"

The fact is, the GT-R lapped the 'Ring 3 seconds faster than the 991S. I don't care.

 

Jasper you are evidently one of very few GTR owners on this board that continually struggle to accept the reality associated to the brand image of your GTR, amongst other points that have come up in the discussion regarding comparisons between GTR, Porsche, and other high end marques.

When it comes to your beloved GTR you evidently suffer a personal identity crisis over your cars brand image.....there can be no other logical reason behind this extraordinary behaviour of yours.

GTR owners that have been involved in this discussion don't have any problem with my discussion points yet you do...and, your retorts are always expressed in a very angry, retaliatory and defensive manner. When i said you are giving the owners of the GTR a bad look i really mean it. I genuinely feel embarrassed for you jasper. You should consider trying to behave in a more dignified and adult fashion. You are fooling nobody here but yourself.

Whether it has been in this discussion or previously, every time I (or others) point out widely recognised facts associated to the GTR, Porsche and other high end marques, you retaliate by conveniently misusing the context of discussion points, i.e. gleaning sentences out of my discussion (as you have done now), or words, in a futile attempt to put together a defence against the indefensible. Additionally you continually refuse to clarify who it is that sees GTR as having a same or better brand image than Porsche (and other high end Marques) and i suspect because you know you can't substantiate anything tangible beyond your own personal anger and frustration over your beloved cars brand image issues, yet this silly behaviour only further exemplifies your total inability to come to terms with the realities associated to these matters.

Jasper don't you realise by now that no matter what you say, or what silly games you employ, will never change the facts or the mindset associated to the mainstream markets views on the points i have raised? Calling myself or other people arrogant, snobs or brand ****** is really very silly and childish. It doesn't change a thing.

Take JmanE55 as an example. He owns a GTR and a Porsche yet has absolutely no problem at all identifying his own GTR's quality issues and, its image issues vs his Porsche, and is able to offer discussion without carrying on the way you do. He is also able to accept his GTR for what "it is" and for "what it isn't" and is able to enjoy it accordingly. You on the other hand choose to delude yourself, behave like a sore toe, and in that process ram it down everyones throats that your beloved GTR is the be all end all on all fronts....and, on a P car forum too. I just don't see other GTR owners behaving like you jasper. Now why is that?

Pretending to laugh it off, or getting angry at others for talking about the differing points that actually exists between these two brands isn't fooling anyone here Jasper....don't you realise that?

What i also find thoroughly amusing is the way you continually masquerade around the Porsche car forums pretending you are interested in Porsches, and in that process seek to usurp discussion wherever you can, and attack Porsche owners for speaking out on your beloved GTR over widely known truths....using your friends and allies as back up if you get yourself into trouble.

If this nonsense was happening over on the GTR forum and the shoe was on the other foot (i.e.you being a Porsche owner), this ridiculous behaviour of yours wouldn't fly for a second. You'd be booted off! The only reason you are getting away with your nonsense here is because of your associations with powerful members, yet you abuse that privilege as well i see.

 

The 'Ring? This was quite a small track by comparison.

But this discussion is not about performance between the GT-R and the 991 C2S, that part was never an issue, and in my opinion, should never have been compared (like the Jaguar XKR-S vs GT-R by Top Gear - didn't even come across as a comparison).

 

WOW... This thread is growing like wildfires

Im fortunate to have both 09TT & 13GTR, I have to say that the 13GTR is vastly improved over the 09-11 in term of power & handling (I had a 2010). At the time when I bought the 2010, I couldnt stand the workmanship and the interior of the GTR, on top of that, the cabin made random noises, the brake squeeks loudly and the transmission/suspension was very noisy. I disliked it so much so I got rid of it, the 13GTR still has some of these issues but I've learned to tune it out by tuning up the volume while driving. This car is phenomenal in term of its ability to defines physic, it's big and heavy but when you push it hard, it comes alive and delivers the performance that exceeds your expectation. I know it wears a NISSAN badge but it gets more attention than my Pcar, it appeals to more demographics populations and it makes you feel younger for an old fart like me. The GTR isnt for everyone, especially to the 911TT's camp. I've a few buddies who truly hate the GTR because it does absolutely nothing for them but they do appreciate its performance, however, I have more followers with my GTR. At the end of the day, I'd prefer my 09TT on a formal date with my wife than my GTR but the NISSAN is more fun for other occasions.

The Porsche Turbo... Well, there's NO SUBTITUTION.

 

Thanks for the correction, Jasper. This thread has been going on so long that I forgot which track we were talking about!

 

Excellent!
Your original point was taken, regardless.

 

Didnt we have enough comparison with 997 and z06?

So if the 2014 corvette is faster than 2012 991, does that mean porsche dropped the ball again on evolutionary change ??

U keep comparing apples to oranges

Stay on one subject buddy.. Focus.

Ur whole rant was that 997 was terrible evolutionary change because 997 was not competitive.. What makes 991 so competitive?

I am pointing out that , according to ur terms, Porsche did the same with 991 as they did with 997

Just because 911 was recently introduced... u think it's the game changer ?? u sure u just don't like the fancy interior ??

IMO 991 continues the legacy of 911 like all the Ones before.. No more, no less.

 

Comparing the 991 to 997: when a relative base model 991 (C2S) can outperform a track specific 997 GT3 - on track, I'd say this is quite a leap (external competitors omitted).

 

My whole rant, if you paid attention was that the 997 was not ENOUGH evolution and fell behind the competition, and was barely faster than the 996 when it came out. They finished the product cycle with what they should have started with, this goes for the .1 GT3 and .1 TT as well, they just were not up to par.

The 991 has changed that, because if you compare a same part of product cycle 991 (launch versions) to a 997, it's a HUGE ENORMOUS step forward.

This is pretty easy for anyone to see. As long as their eyes aren't closed.

 

Jasper, regardless of what Nissan claims their goals were (and you can't deny they are prone to lying) the evidence (including the newly introduced 5 year extension on the R35 and constant price hikes even shortly after release) suggest that Nissan have lost their shirts on this one, and simply have not had the time in one product cycle to get the return on their investment enough to develop a new car. As long as it took them to develop the R35, they'd need some time (and lots of $$$$) to make a better one.

They can only keep feeding the thing HP for so long, not only that, but small increments, like the 2013 with little improvement, but big price hike, see sales fall off even quicker. They update every time and pretty much every time is accompanied with a price hike. This suggests they are still trying to recoup the development dollars they are investing on each upgrade, and inching towards actually making a profit on the car. Or at least not losing a ton.

The weight also is not going anywhere. So it's going to be a hard sell for them to keep driving the price up when the platform has been nearly maxed out. What happens when the GT-R is 105k next, 110k??? 115?

40% increase on the MSRP cannot be blamed on the dollar.

 

OK so after having read most of the posts quite a few things seem to stand out...
I'll just give you guys my 2 cents on the last one I read (short attention span).
That being, "the preference of owning a Porsche 991 over a Nissan GTR is taken as being a snob".

I bought a Porsche over other brands because of the fact that it IS a name one can be proud of owning.
So with pride I say yes I am a snob!

Hell even within the 911 line up folks that have turbo or GT3/2 can be snobs (flame suit on ) because they feel they have a superior 911 compared to a base, S, 4/4S...
But ya know what, I figure they've earned that right by working their asses of to pay that premium for a faster more prestigious model (and I own a lowly C4S).

Lets not even get started on the views between a 997 VS 996 or the 911 VS the Boxter!

What I'm saying is if you buy a car purely for performance than arguable the GTR is one of the best out there but... (yes there's a but ) you are buying a Nissan.
Fast, expensive and it does garner a healthy amount respect but... it's made by Nissan...period.
It is what it is.

A Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche... the fact that some 911's are "slower" than other cars out there (GTR) really is irrelevant to me.
It's an amazing looking, sounding and performing car... not to mention that handling!
But more over, you're buying into a brand that commands respect across the board!
I worked my @ss off to be able to own one of these nice "toys" so someone who doesn't own one can really not expect me or any-other Porsche owner to feel we got the short end of the stick...

So am I a snob... HELL YA!!
Until someone parks their Turbo, GT3, GT2 etc. beside me... if you have one, find another damn parking spot!!

 

It is what it is.

 

Yeah except my rear end looks like this (until I get the 991C4S)