I have a simple and straight forward question
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Wow that was long Craig, however I did find a part that I will answer. Let me just explain a little on how the system works. I will say that many Softronic clients are bound by certain agreements and they are NOT aloud to disclose information. I can say that once in a while one may offer more than is aloud and the situation is explained to them. I'm sure most people can understand that.
1. Softronic or the Tuner using Softronic sends out a cable either with or without the data logging and diagnostic capabilities.
2. The customer can either download the Softronic software to read and write to the car or have it sent on a CD from the Tuner.
3. The customer installs the software and now plugs the cable into either a laptop that it was installed on or a desktop. 50ft cables are available for this and up to 100ft are ok.
4. Now an INTERNET connection is required to read and write.
5. the ignition to the car is turned on and the program executed. The program will read out the binary in the car. This includes the IPAS data, over revs, VIN, program ops, engine hours etc.
6. Now this info is uploaded to our server or tuners account.
7. Softronic or the specific tuner logs in and downloads an encrypted file. This file has all the information and the original Porsche binary with changes.
8. With other Softronic software any of this info or binary can be altered and saved as another 3 encrypted files. One is for the original Porsche file, another is the changes to over revs or any other non mapped data and the third is the Tuned file.
9. Softronic or the tuner now sends any or all of these files via email to their client.
10. The customer now clicks on any of these executable encrypted files to program the car with the ignition on and cable etc hooked up.
Softronic read times on a 7.8.4 DME is 45sec and writing is at 4 minutes total. The 5.2 systems read and write as fast as you press the executable software so no time could be measured other than a second or two.
I hope this answers your question? And no I did not mind it.
Best
1. Softronic or the Tuner using Softronic sends out a cable either with or without the data logging and diagnostic capabilities.
2. The customer can either download the Softronic software to read and write to the car or have it sent on a CD from the Tuner.
3. The customer installs the software and now plugs the cable into either a laptop that it was installed on or a desktop. 50ft cables are available for this and up to 100ft are ok.
4. Now an INTERNET connection is required to read and write.
5. the ignition to the car is turned on and the program executed. The program will read out the binary in the car. This includes the IPAS data, over revs, VIN, program ops, engine hours etc.
6. Now this info is uploaded to our server or tuners account.
7. Softronic or the specific tuner logs in and downloads an encrypted file. This file has all the information and the original Porsche binary with changes.
8. With other Softronic software any of this info or binary can be altered and saved as another 3 encrypted files. One is for the original Porsche file, another is the changes to over revs or any other non mapped data and the third is the Tuned file.
9. Softronic or the tuner now sends any or all of these files via email to their client.
10. The customer now clicks on any of these executable encrypted files to program the car with the ignition on and cable etc hooked up.
Softronic read times on a 7.8.4 DME is 45sec and writing is at 4 minutes total. The 5.2 systems read and write as fast as you press the executable software so no time could be measured other than a second or two.
I hope this answers your question? And no I did not mind it.
Best
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation. I commend your candor and willingness to openly answer questions about your product. I wish certain other venders using 6Speed as a marketing venue were as open about their products, and as willing to answer questions, as you are. Softronic would be wise to instruct their tuner customers – one in particular – to refrain from promoting Softronic with disingenuous hyperbole. You sir are a far better spokesman for Softronic than your tuner customers.
As I understand it, the Tuner uses your cable and interface to extract the files from the car and, once extracted, the files are delivered via the internet from the Tuner to Softronic’s server – am I right so far? The files are modified, and new files are created, while on your server – yes? Then the new, modified files are delivered via the internet back to the Tuner for input into the car via your cable and interface – yes? Sounds reasonably straight forward.
The one thing I am unclear about is how the new/modified files are created and, equally important, who modifies/creates them. Does the Tuner send Softronic the data logs, and Softronic makes the changes to the files? Does the Tuner tell Softronic what changes it wants, and Softronic executes the changes to the files? Or, does the Tuner itself make the changes to the files while on Softronic’s server, without Softronic’s assistance or input? How are the changes actually made to the files before they go back to the Tuner for installation into the car? Is Softronic involved in making the changes?
Thanks in advance for your additional input!!!
Craig
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No not scary, everyone loves to read into more than there is. The file that is read is only 65k out of 1 meg in size so you do not have the whole file.
In the real world anyone who wants another file can simply read it out if they wanted to and that has always been the case by removing the chip. Believe me I do not want any other files. I can distinctly remember when I made the conversion files for using the 3.8S or X51 engines in the Cayman or Boxster. The best file out there other than mine was an altered Cayman file to run a 997 engine. This was like trying to change an apple into an orange. This is why none of them made the 997 engines HP. I not only change the programming but also the CAN line. This makes the cars run as a mid engine 997 with more power than the 997's even have and handle better.
I think this just answered all the paranoia on the Softronic reading part. Once the car is read you can simply send as many altered files as you like to the customer and all the alterations are done on the tuners computer, not the server.
In the real world anyone who wants another file can simply read it out if they wanted to and that has always been the case by removing the chip. Believe me I do not want any other files. I can distinctly remember when I made the conversion files for using the 3.8S or X51 engines in the Cayman or Boxster. The best file out there other than mine was an altered Cayman file to run a 997 engine. This was like trying to change an apple into an orange. This is why none of them made the 997 engines HP. I not only change the programming but also the CAN line. This makes the cars run as a mid engine 997 with more power than the 997's even have and handle better.
I think this just answered all the paranoia on the Softronic reading part. Once the car is read you can simply send as many altered files as you like to the customer and all the alterations are done on the tuners computer, not the server.
Scott, step number 6 is what scares me. Here is a hypothetical, actually two of them. Kevin is getting ready to tune my stg4 engine that is going to be running at 8500 rpm with some real expensive heads, turbos and rotating assembly. You and I know how his PP100 works, he actually has mine at the moment. He loads up this file for my engine in the PP100 and FedExes the programmer to me. I flash my own ECU. Later down the road, he wants to start emailing me different files for octane, boost , timing and rpm levels. According to your own post, if I use your cable Kevin's hard work and proprietary tuning data is copied out of MY ecu and sent to YOUR server ( step 6) in your post. Markski has a file for his car that isnt even turbo code , but rather GT3 code. Impressive stuff IMO. He wants to start recieving files thru email from TK for the same reasons I would like to receive them from Kevin. He follows the steps you just outlined and at step number 6, not only does Softronic possess the best tuning UMW has to offer but also Protomotive as well.... Pretty darn scary if you ask me. According to your step 6, everyone who uses the Softronic cable, and the cable doesnt discriminate between Proto, UMW, GIAC, Upsolute, Ruf, RStuning, FVD etc all forfeit the contents of their ECU to your server
.... Wow
.... WowLast edited by Marine8541; Dec 23, 2007 at 07:02 AM.
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I agree, there is absolutely positively NO WAY you can definitively say that even half of the fastest Porsches are on 6speed or rennlist, I happen to know quite a few that Neils german connections work on that never see the internet. There are several tuners who are not on 6speed and rennlist, to say otherwise in inaccurate at best.
Simply find me one or two Porsche street cars with verified acceleration times (either 1/4 mile, 60-130 or 100-200kph) from anywhere in the world, that are faster than the fastest cars I presently have on the list. If there are as many running around as you claim, it should be a relatively easy request to fulfill. But I won't hold my breath.
Okay, back to the debate.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; Dec 23, 2007 at 09:32 AM.
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FWIW, Todd K. emailed me regarding the relationship between Proto, Vivid and Softronic. He's too busy to read the entire thread, so I'll just post what he told me. Hopefully, this will quell some of the conspiracy theories that are embedded in this thread:
I use Softronic cables for downloading.
Vivid uses Softronic cables for downloading.
FVD uses Softronic cables for downloading, hell, a lot of people do these days…
Softronic provides Vivid with software.
Although I’ve helped both Softronic/vivid out, I’ve told them both that we’re not to be associated/branded/advertised, etc with them. They’re making their own products, we make our own.
I use Softronic cables for downloading.
Vivid uses Softronic cables for downloading.
FVD uses Softronic cables for downloading, hell, a lot of people do these days…
Softronic provides Vivid with software.
Although I’ve helped both Softronic/vivid out, I’ve told them both that we’re not to be associated/branded/advertised, etc with them. They’re making their own products, we make our own.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; Dec 23, 2007 at 01:41 PM.
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There are only two Tuners that make the software that flashes a Porsche over the OBDII port and tune, Softronic and REVO. Only one out of the two allow other companies to use their service , Softronic. All the Softronic files are Softronics. Softronic works with most of the Tuners in one fashion or another on this board. This would include providing technical information, flashing technologies and other binary related questions etc.
Ug, UMW does. No others have a hand in it from other tuners. I happen to know more than I can post...and I can assure you that the UMW code is unique, the real thing, and of the highest intellectual lineage in terms of car racing. Nuff said. I don't have the best of anything in my life because I am a working stiff.....professional, but not a king or CEO or the like. My code is the best out there. Period. I am a consumer with connections. Nothing more. Everyone can do as they wish. I am comfortable in stating the facts as I see them (my opinion). It is quite possible that others will equal the UMW code, but I strongly suspect that it is impossible to best it.
Quite simply, our cars are mechanical systems. If one had infinite knowledge, one could optimize it....but beyond that it is impossible to improve the thing...that is where UMW is. For the given platform, it is optimized. Others can get there just as "optimzied"...if you will. But, at this level, that is the it. The car is a 3.6 l dual turbo.....only so much air and fuel can get used up...we all need to stop arguing and realize this.
Say two (or ten) brilliant physicists solve some big problem....isolated from each other. Both say in the end that the answer is 42. That is it. One guy's 42 is not better than another's. If softronic make life easier for tuners, so be it. I don't begrudge all the software vendors for using cd's to distribute software....it fits in the computer now....packaging is not worth fighting over. That is what softronic's cable gadget is. It is the packaging. The code can probably be their's for a price or unique to a tuner.
Tuning in the end is a business....leave them alone. They need to eat and buy gifts for their loved ones as much as anyone else. Business is judged by quality of product and quality of service in my book. Pick your tuners on your own and stop bashing others for their choices. We don't all have to agree on what we buy to be friends. The smart tuners realize that others might get the mechanical answer down well...say 42 if you will. Once they get 42 and they want to have a nice paycheck, they realize that the way to go is service. Think about it. It is not complex. I ponder why some on this board tolerate poor service given the price of all of this "needed" stuff. Every bit of what we discuss here is a luxury item. As such, it is both relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things (people starving/suffereing)....
Who cares what code proto uses if it makes you happy and it performs as they say it should. Who cares. What you are really paying for is their service. I am paying for UMW to keep me out of trouble. If you use proto, same deal. These engines are expensive....and most of us value our time and want sucess with this stuff... Time is our most valuable asset and that is what we are paying for...at some level.
Happy holidays!
Just correcting a simple error of fact. No criticism meant. I took the money I had saved for an exhaust and gave it to charity. I plan to restart my process soon. And I plan to use the car to drive sick kids around if it is legal in a hospital parking lot (liability???).
PS: I like Oak's style. :-)
JB
Last edited by jcb-memphis; Dec 23, 2007 at 10:21 AM.
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I can only say that we all have our own businesses and there is nothing to gain in any negativity to others. Should a customer buy any program or product it is of their choice. I think that all of the sponsors on this forum have a unique and well made product. I personally have used and still use many or most of them.
Best
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negativity? no never, not here on 6speed. when a non sponser makes a post on the 6 with some claims and innuendos from other tuners with suspect service or products. it's like fresh meat. gotta earn it here on the 6. myself being the resident sceptic, well I have a tendency to pop-off, no favortism. nothing personal.
I'm sure those that have been around for awhile and understand the inner workings of this market will understand.
I'm sure those that have been around for awhile and understand the inner workings of this market will understand.
