Top Gear Tests the Nissan GTR - Stigs time...
This post is funny... It is VERY funny.
Having owned Nissans since 1987, and being a part of that community for so long, I am well aware of the heritage the original skyline has... If you want to wind the clocks back further, let's talk about the original bluedirds...
I'm not going to "have egg on my face." The current GT-R is as far from the last two generations of GT-R as you can get. There's ZERO lineage between them... But hey good luck.
And again, Magazine data means nothing to me. Qoute all you want. But I'll get the "deinative" answers soon enough.
Mike
Having owned Nissans since 1987, and being a part of that community for so long, I am well aware of the heritage the original skyline has... If you want to wind the clocks back further, let's talk about the original bluedirds...
I'm not going to "have egg on my face." The current GT-R is as far from the last two generations of GT-R as you can get. There's ZERO lineage between them... But hey good luck.
And again, Magazine data means nothing to me. Qoute all you want. But I'll get the "deinative" answers soon enough.
Mike
Mike, I think you need to take a deep breath and consider some of what you are carrying on with here.
Evolutions of the GTR have been around for nearly two decades, each evolution has always been faster than the competing Porsche Turbo of the day. Car enthusiasts have been tracking and modifying these GTR's since day one, road cars with 1000plus HP, qtr mile cars doing 8 secs etc and been around for ages. The GTR was originally developed to win the Bathurst 1000 (this is not a US based race so I also assume a lot of posters here are unaware that it is arguably the greatest touring car race in the world) which it did easily in 1990 and 1991 until it was banned to let other manufacturers have a chance to get back into the race. The GTR has a long and successful racing pedigree both as a production car and as a full race car.
The fact that the car has not been sold until now in the US and that the majority of the US 6speeders have never heard of the car nor had any experience with it is sad but many of us from other parts of the world have had a lot of hands on experience with the various evolutions of the car.
You can continue on saying that it is over rated, to heavy, unreliable, test cars are not representative etc but I guarantee you are going to be left with a lot of egg on your face..........
Evolutions of the GTR have been around for nearly two decades, each evolution has always been faster than the competing Porsche Turbo of the day. Car enthusiasts have been tracking and modifying these GTR's since day one, road cars with 1000plus HP, qtr mile cars doing 8 secs etc and been around for ages. The GTR was originally developed to win the Bathurst 1000 (this is not a US based race so I also assume a lot of posters here are unaware that it is arguably the greatest touring car race in the world) which it did easily in 1990 and 1991 until it was banned to let other manufacturers have a chance to get back into the race. The GTR has a long and successful racing pedigree both as a production car and as a full race car.
The fact that the car has not been sold until now in the US and that the majority of the US 6speeders have never heard of the car nor had any experience with it is sad but many of us from other parts of the world have had a lot of hands on experience with the various evolutions of the car.
You can continue on saying that it is over rated, to heavy, unreliable, test cars are not representative etc but I guarantee you are going to be left with a lot of egg on your face..........
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that's my plan
I welcome all new cars and technology that advance the art and science of driving and think the Nissan will be awesome!
Sebring Raceway, 3.7 mile, 17 turn 12-Hour Circuit
Saturday, 8/23/2008
Sebring: TracQuest format. SATURDAY ONLY
Course: 3.7 mile, 17 turn 12-Hour Circuit
Format: TracQuest Format
REGISTRATION STATUS: Accepting registrations:
* for solo drivers: 39 openings remaining
* Novice registration is full. To be added to the waiting list, please email your request.
Total Registration is limited to 90 participants
Event Roster
Waiting Novice1)Fabiano VMiami, FLBlack 2008 Porsche Carrera
Provisional Solo1)William BPotomac, MDBlack 1991 Porsche 964Paid2)Anthony DRuskin, FLBLUE 2004 VOLKSWAGEN R32 Paid3)Stephen Oorlando, FLblack 2006 pontiac gtoPaid4)Robert RMiami Beach, FLsilver 1999 BMW M3Paid5)Luciano RKey Biscayne, FLWhite 1983 Porsche 911 SCPaid6)Steven WSarasota, FLRubino 2005 Ferrari F430Paid7)Roger WSarasota, FLBlack 2007 Porsche Cayman SPaid8)S. Kent WTampa, FLBlack 2003 BMW 330CiPaid
Novice1)Gerald ABonita Springs, FLred 2008 Nissan GTRPaid2)Johan ATampa, FLRed 2005 BMW M3Paid3)David BWinter Springs, FLGPW 2007 Honda S2000Paid4)John DGainesville, FLBlack 2007 Infiniti G35Paid5)Chris Dkissimmee, FL1993 Mazda MiataPaid6)Mark Dkissimmee, FL1993 Mazda MiataPaid7)Andrew FBoca Raton, FLSilver 2005 Porsche 997SPaid8)Richard HAvon Park, FLBlue 2005 Mini Cooper Cooper SPaid9)Mario KBrandon, FLMerlot Mica 1995 Mazda MiataPaid10)Steven KOrlando, FLBlue 2006 Chevrolet CorvettePaid11)Douglas MAtlantic Beach, FLBlack 2008 Corvette ZO6Paid12)Jared MRiverview, FLSilver 1997 Chevrolet CorvettePaid13)Brian RPonte Vedra Bch, FL2003 Porsche 911 CarraraPaid14)Craig RHypoluxo, FLBlack 2008 porsche caymanPaid15)Ivan Slargo, FLblack 1990 honda crx siPaid16)Mikael SSeffner, FL1993 BMW 325iPaid17)James WOviedo, FLRed 2004 MINI SPaid18)Stephen WLakeland, FLSilver 2006 BMW M3Paid19)Michael XWinter Park, FL2005 Nightfall Blue Lotus Elise #26Paid
Master Instructor1)Glen BMerritt Island, FLBlue 1999 Panoz GTWC #99Paid2)Joshua FDavie, FLWhite 1993 Mazda MiataPaid3)Rob LTitusville, FLSilver 2000 Porsche 911 #55Paid
Intermediate Solo1)Howard ATampa, FLHenna Red 1988 BMW M3Paid2)Eric ABoca Raton, FLSilver 2004 Porsche Boxster SPaid3)Scott BOrlando, FLwhite 1992 Honda CivicPaid4)Mical FAlva, FL2004 Volkswagen .:R32Paid5)Bob GTampa, FLSilver 2006 BMW M3Paid6)Brad GLargo, FLBlack 1998 BMW M3Paid7)Shaun GVenice, FLRed 2006 Chevrolet CorvettePaid8)Mike GNaples, FLGrey 2003 Mazdaspeed ProtegePaid9)Brian KFt. Myers, FL2006 Chevrolet Z06 CorvettePaid10)John MSarasota, FLWhite 1992 Mazda MiataPaid11)Carlos MWeston, FLRed 1996 Acura NSXPaid12)Miles MWellington, FL2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06Paid13)Carlos PTampa, FL2007 Chevrolet CorvettePaid14)Andrew RDelray Beach, FLAtlas Grey 2007 Porsche 997Paid15)Kevin RPALM HARBOR, FL2005 PORSCHE CARRERA 997 SPaid16)Quinn RBonita Springs, FLWhite 2007 Porsche 997 TurboPaid17)Clyde SOdessa, FLBlack 2006 CHEVY CORVETTE Z06Paid18)Nick TParkland, FL2008 Porsche Cayman S PE1Paid19)Lucas WOrlando, FLBRG 2001 Mazda MiataPaid20)Mark WPALM HARBOR, FLred 2007 FERRARI 430 CHALLENGEPaid
Instructor1)Mel AHudson, FLRed 1988 BMW M3Paid2)Jeffrey AMarietta, GARed-Blk 1992 Acura NSX #30Paid3)Philipe Amiramar, FLwhite -red 1991 Mazda rx-7Paid4)Rui Amiramar, FLred-white 1991 mazda rx7Paid5)Bob AMerritt Island, FLBlue 1999 Panoz GTWCPaid6)Mike BPalm City, FLSilver 2007 Porsche Cayman SPaid7)Bruce BSt Petersburg, FLred 2001 Porsche Carrera CoupePaid8)Ernesto BAventura, FLSunset 2006 Nissan 350ZPaid9)Pedro CLongwood, FLBlack 1996 dodge neon #57Owes10)Michael CApollo Beach, FLWhite 2007 Porsche 997SPaid11)Rod CTemple Terrace, FLSeal Grey 2002 Porsche 911Paid12)Shawn CParkland, FLBlack 2006 Lotus ExigePaid13)Patrick DFort Myers, FLSilver 1999 BMW M3Paid14)Charles Dbrooksville, FLwhite 2006 stohr WF1Paid15)James DPort St Lucie, FL2007 Chevy Z06 CorvettePaid16)David HClearwater, FLRed 1992 Mazda MiataPaid17)John JMaitland, FL2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 4SPaid18)Pedroluis JMiami, FLSilver 2003 Nissan 350ZPaid19)Tom KTampa, FL2002 Porsche 996 twin turboPaid20)Michael KFort Myers, FLblack 2005 Porsche Carrera SPaid21)Mike MDebary, FLChamp White 1993 Honda Civic #200Paid
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Sebring Raceway, 3.7 mile, 17 turn 12-Hour Circuit
Saturday, 8/23/2008
Sebring: TracQuest format. SATURDAY ONLY
Course: 3.7 mile, 17 turn 12-Hour Circuit
Format: TracQuest Format
REGISTRATION STATUS: Accepting registrations:
* for solo drivers: 39 openings remaining
* Novice registration is full. To be added to the waiting list, please email your request.
Total Registration is limited to 90 participants
Event Roster
Waiting Novice1)Fabiano VMiami, FLBlack 2008 Porsche Carrera
Provisional Solo1)William BPotomac, MDBlack 1991 Porsche 964Paid2)Anthony DRuskin, FLBLUE 2004 VOLKSWAGEN R32 Paid3)Stephen Oorlando, FLblack 2006 pontiac gtoPaid4)Robert RMiami Beach, FLsilver 1999 BMW M3Paid5)Luciano RKey Biscayne, FLWhite 1983 Porsche 911 SCPaid6)Steven WSarasota, FLRubino 2005 Ferrari F430Paid7)Roger WSarasota, FLBlack 2007 Porsche Cayman SPaid8)S. Kent WTampa, FLBlack 2003 BMW 330CiPaid
Novice1)Gerald ABonita Springs, FLred 2008 Nissan GTRPaid2)Johan ATampa, FLRed 2005 BMW M3Paid3)David BWinter Springs, FLGPW 2007 Honda S2000Paid4)John DGainesville, FLBlack 2007 Infiniti G35Paid5)Chris Dkissimmee, FL1993 Mazda MiataPaid6)Mark Dkissimmee, FL1993 Mazda MiataPaid7)Andrew FBoca Raton, FLSilver 2005 Porsche 997SPaid8)Richard HAvon Park, FLBlue 2005 Mini Cooper Cooper SPaid9)Mario KBrandon, FLMerlot Mica 1995 Mazda MiataPaid10)Steven KOrlando, FLBlue 2006 Chevrolet CorvettePaid11)Douglas MAtlantic Beach, FLBlack 2008 Corvette ZO6Paid12)Jared MRiverview, FLSilver 1997 Chevrolet CorvettePaid13)Brian RPonte Vedra Bch, FL2003 Porsche 911 CarraraPaid14)Craig RHypoluxo, FLBlack 2008 porsche caymanPaid15)Ivan Slargo, FLblack 1990 honda crx siPaid16)Mikael SSeffner, FL1993 BMW 325iPaid17)James WOviedo, FLRed 2004 MINI SPaid18)Stephen WLakeland, FLSilver 2006 BMW M3Paid19)Michael XWinter Park, FL2005 Nightfall Blue Lotus Elise #26Paid
Master Instructor1)Glen BMerritt Island, FLBlue 1999 Panoz GTWC #99Paid2)Joshua FDavie, FLWhite 1993 Mazda MiataPaid3)Rob LTitusville, FLSilver 2000 Porsche 911 #55Paid
Intermediate Solo1)Howard ATampa, FLHenna Red 1988 BMW M3Paid2)Eric ABoca Raton, FLSilver 2004 Porsche Boxster SPaid3)Scott BOrlando, FLwhite 1992 Honda CivicPaid4)Mical FAlva, FL2004 Volkswagen .:R32Paid5)Bob GTampa, FLSilver 2006 BMW M3Paid6)Brad GLargo, FLBlack 1998 BMW M3Paid7)Shaun GVenice, FLRed 2006 Chevrolet CorvettePaid8)Mike GNaples, FLGrey 2003 Mazdaspeed ProtegePaid9)Brian KFt. Myers, FL2006 Chevrolet Z06 CorvettePaid10)John MSarasota, FLWhite 1992 Mazda MiataPaid11)Carlos MWeston, FLRed 1996 Acura NSXPaid12)Miles MWellington, FL2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06Paid13)Carlos PTampa, FL2007 Chevrolet CorvettePaid14)Andrew RDelray Beach, FLAtlas Grey 2007 Porsche 997Paid15)Kevin RPALM HARBOR, FL2005 PORSCHE CARRERA 997 SPaid16)Quinn RBonita Springs, FLWhite 2007 Porsche 997 TurboPaid17)Clyde SOdessa, FLBlack 2006 CHEVY CORVETTE Z06Paid18)Nick TParkland, FL2008 Porsche Cayman S PE1Paid19)Lucas WOrlando, FLBRG 2001 Mazda MiataPaid20)Mark WPALM HARBOR, FLred 2007 FERRARI 430 CHALLENGEPaid
Instructor1)Mel AHudson, FLRed 1988 BMW M3Paid2)Jeffrey AMarietta, GARed-Blk 1992 Acura NSX #30Paid3)Philipe Amiramar, FLwhite -red 1991 Mazda rx-7Paid4)Rui Amiramar, FLred-white 1991 mazda rx7Paid5)Bob AMerritt Island, FLBlue 1999 Panoz GTWCPaid6)Mike BPalm City, FLSilver 2007 Porsche Cayman SPaid7)Bruce BSt Petersburg, FLred 2001 Porsche Carrera CoupePaid8)Ernesto BAventura, FLSunset 2006 Nissan 350ZPaid9)Pedro CLongwood, FLBlack 1996 dodge neon #57Owes10)Michael CApollo Beach, FLWhite 2007 Porsche 997SPaid11)Rod CTemple Terrace, FLSeal Grey 2002 Porsche 911Paid12)Shawn CParkland, FLBlack 2006 Lotus ExigePaid13)Patrick DFort Myers, FLSilver 1999 BMW M3Paid14)Charles Dbrooksville, FLwhite 2006 stohr WF1Paid15)James DPort St Lucie, FL2007 Chevy Z06 CorvettePaid16)David HClearwater, FLRed 1992 Mazda MiataPaid17)John JMaitland, FL2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 4SPaid18)Pedroluis JMiami, FLSilver 2003 Nissan 350ZPaid19)Tom KTampa, FL2002 Porsche 996 twin turboPaid20)Michael KFort Myers, FLblack 2005 Porsche Carrera SPaid21)Mike MDebary, FLChamp White 1993 Honda Civic #200Paid
Catseven, to me, driving a car like this or the GT-R isn't about hanging at the coffee house or picking up chicks or showing my buddies how bad a ride my wallet could buy. These cars are cars that should be tracked... And to me, someone who drives his pickup truck more as his daily driver than his 996TT, that's all that matters, what the car will do on the track... And Uh, I'll be more than happy to put your money where my mouth is to buy a racecar and race it... But don't tell me how to spend mine.
Mike
Mike
I find it funny how the fanboys on either side of the argument just seem to regurgitate the track numbers, they never discuss how the car feels or how it makes you feel, it's always "this car is x number of seconds faster than that car!" Get a life! What race are you in that having a ROAD car that is a few seconds faster around a track (in the hands of a professional driver no less) than a bunch of already ridiculously fast cars is somehow better? Are you really going to feel the difference? If being fastest around a track is so important, buy a race car and put your money where your mouth is
There is more to cars than just speed.
There is more to cars than just speed.
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Catseven, to me, driving a car like this or the GT-R isn't about hanging at the coffee house or picking up chicks or showing my buddies how bad a ride my wallet could buy. These cars are cars that should be tracked... And to me, someone who drives his pickup truck more as his daily driver than his 996TT, that's all that matters, what the car will do on the track... And Uh, I'll be more than happy to put your money where my mouth is to buy a racecar and race it... But don't tell me how to spend mine.
Mike
Mike
You missed the point.
I never said it was about being a poseur, nor anything about how the car performs. Track days are not a race where you need the fastest car possible to get to the finish line first. At track days, you never know if the other driver is trying hard or even has the ability to exploit their car. I have seen really great drivers in underpowered cars run circles around guys in really powerful cars. So what difference does it make if you have the fastest car or not? Lap times at track days are only relevant in bettering yourself.
Doing track days, the most important thing is how the car makes you feel, how much fun you are having. The GT-R or or whatever you want to bring to the table being a couple of ticks faster than X car is not going to make the experience any better. These arguments about times are just measurebating
or showing my buddies how bad a ride my wallet could buy.
Last edited by catseven; Jul 23, 2008 at 02:17 PM.
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To clarify some more for you. A GT-R is not going to make you a better driver or be more exciting to drive because it is a couple of seconds faster in the hands of a pro driver than a Porsche or Corvette, or whatever, so getting excited over the car purely based on the numbers is ridiculous.
You should get excited about a car because you like the way it looks, the way it makes you feel, how fun it is drive etc., the whole package has to do it for you
You should get excited about a car because you like the way it looks, the way it makes you feel, how fun it is drive etc., the whole package has to do it for you
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I'll say this.....a lot of folks were or are still questioning the performance and numbers of the GTR but as more and more car shows and magazines are posting their results, we must conclude that this car is damn quick for its price. As for its looks, it's all subjective. I wouldn't mind having one next to my Porsche but it will never replace it even though it's faster. However, I will give credit to Nissan for finally bringing this car to shore because it's obviously stirring a lot of debate. Somewhere in Japan at Nissan headquarter, the guys responsible for designing and producting this car are all smiling because this is just the first wave. Their Spec V is also debuting at the end of this year. Now just imagine how much more attention this car will get compared to this model. It's a fast car guys but it's not for everyone.
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Great post. Couldn't have said it better myself.
That has not been my experience at all. I worked on one of the magazine stories on the GT-R (and no, I am not going to publicly say which one) and that is how I got to drive it back in February (and a number of other cars over the years) and I can tell you no one says; "well Nissan is advertising so lets fudge their times or let them win this comparison test."
Assuming your theory, seeing how most manufacturers (including Porsche) are regular advertisers in the big magazines, how are they supposed to show this so called "bias" without pissing off the others and losing their advertising dollars?
As for the reliability, yes, it is an unproven factor, but it is not like the Japanese have a reputation for building cars that break a lot.
To add, when I had the car, Nissan was doing tire testing and brake testing, they were running three cars around Reno Fernley for hours on end for a couple of days straight with their test driver Toshio Suzuki doing very hard laps and nothing broke (they were concerned about the brakes overheating though and kept checking temps, but it did not seem to be a problem). Kazutoshi Mizuno was there too, I had lunch with him, nice guy.
Multiple car magazines have also tested the car relentlessly on the track and then went off and drove the cars hundreds of miles on the roads without a hiccup.
Could Nissan have provided magazines with Ringers? Sure, but I tend to doubt it, the PR nightmare that would ensue if they got caught would be far worse than the benefits of doing such a thing. It would ruin their credibility for years and cost them millions.
And how would you explain Nissan supplying C/D with a car that was way off the pace of the other GT-R's they tested? why wouldn't they just give them another "ringer"?
I drove the car at rather high speeds (saw 130pmh at one point), I also got a very hairy ride in it with a driver who is better than I and I have no doubts about its performance, there is no question there. But from a fun to drive and passion point of view and for the reasons that Orlando333 made in his earlier post about how the car feels, the car doesn't do anything for me. And these issues are far more important than lap times IMO.
Personally, I think the V-spec could be a bit more interesting and not because of it's added performance, but because it sounds a bit more hardcore and exciting
I find it funny how the fanboys on either side of the argument just seem to regurgitate the track numbers, they never discuss how the car feels or how it makes you feel, it's always "this car is x number of seconds faster than that car!" Get a life! What race are you in that having a ROAD car that is a few seconds faster around a track (in the hands of a professional driver no less) than a bunch of already ridiculously fast cars is somehow better? Are you really going to feel the difference? If being fastest around a track is so important, buy a race car and put your money where your mouth is
There is more to cars than just speed.
Assuming your theory, seeing how most manufacturers (including Porsche) are regular advertisers in the big magazines, how are they supposed to show this so called "bias" without pissing off the others and losing their advertising dollars?
As for the reliability, yes, it is an unproven factor, but it is not like the Japanese have a reputation for building cars that break a lot.
To add, when I had the car, Nissan was doing tire testing and brake testing, they were running three cars around Reno Fernley for hours on end for a couple of days straight with their test driver Toshio Suzuki doing very hard laps and nothing broke (they were concerned about the brakes overheating though and kept checking temps, but it did not seem to be a problem). Kazutoshi Mizuno was there too, I had lunch with him, nice guy.
Multiple car magazines have also tested the car relentlessly on the track and then went off and drove the cars hundreds of miles on the roads without a hiccup.
Could Nissan have provided magazines with Ringers? Sure, but I tend to doubt it, the PR nightmare that would ensue if they got caught would be far worse than the benefits of doing such a thing. It would ruin their credibility for years and cost them millions.
And how would you explain Nissan supplying C/D with a car that was way off the pace of the other GT-R's they tested? why wouldn't they just give them another "ringer"?
I drove the car at rather high speeds (saw 130pmh at one point), I also got a very hairy ride in it with a driver who is better than I and I have no doubts about its performance, there is no question there. But from a fun to drive and passion point of view and for the reasons that Orlando333 made in his earlier post about how the car feels, the car doesn't do anything for me. And these issues are far more important than lap times IMO.
Personally, I think the V-spec could be a bit more interesting and not because of it's added performance, but because it sounds a bit more hardcore and exciting
I find it funny how the fanboys on either side of the argument just seem to regurgitate the track numbers, they never discuss how the car feels or how it makes you feel, it's always "this car is x number of seconds faster than that car!" Get a life! What race are you in that having a ROAD car that is a few seconds faster around a track (in the hands of a professional driver no less) than a bunch of already ridiculously fast cars is somehow better? Are you really going to feel the difference? If being fastest around a track is so important, buy a race car and put your money where your mouth is
There is more to cars than just speed.
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I drove my friends GTR for about 30 miles the other day, so I can comment a little bit.
- The car is fast. From what I was able to get out of it without getting a pass to go to jail.
- Build quality, solidness and materials all seem pretty good.
- The shifts are very fast like some of the other DCT's on the market.
- In auto mode and low RPM the shifts could be smoother, and some how in auto mode I found the car in 6th gear by 40mph i would say. So I opted to stay in manual mode all the time.
- The car is big and has presence when it's in front of you and you do a walk around, it makes my Subaru STI look small.
- I happen to like the way the car looks, it looks like a purpose build machine and would be even better if it was offered in flat black, lol.
- You feel the cars weight when you are driving it.
- Body roll was kept to a minimum on the corner's i felt comfortable taking, again this isn't my car and did not feel comfortable driving all out on the street.
- As far as fun factor goes, I find that my 2007 Subaru STI is more fun to drive on the street, even though it does not come close to the GT-Rs power.
Last edited by Breyton E36; Jul 23, 2008 at 06:55 PM.
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for all the gt-r haters, how do you explain this Road and Track test results where the GT-R stood toe to toe with the GT2 and other exotics (besting them on some of the tracks)
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6944
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6944
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I don't "hate" the GT-R. I also agree that this car being built is a great thing for all of us, as I'm sure it has gotten the attention of the other car makers.
What I am is skeptical. It's a physics thing for me, personally. The numbers don't add up based on what I know of vehicle dynamics. That's my issue, and that's all I'll say any further on that subject.
As I've stated repeatedly, I've been a "Nissan" fan for many many years and have one in the shop right now that's in the final stages of its build process...
The real question is if all these "supercars" can survive the economy.
And I agree with wross... Why is this not moved to an "off topic" category? Nothing good will come of this thread being here in this category... They never do.
Mike
What I am is skeptical. It's a physics thing for me, personally. The numbers don't add up based on what I know of vehicle dynamics. That's my issue, and that's all I'll say any further on that subject.
As I've stated repeatedly, I've been a "Nissan" fan for many many years and have one in the shop right now that's in the final stages of its build process...
The real question is if all these "supercars" can survive the economy.
And I agree with wross... Why is this not moved to an "off topic" category? Nothing good will come of this thread being here in this category... They never do.
Mike
Last edited by Mikelly; Jul 24, 2008 at 05:05 AM.