Hey, I remember that picture, that was taken in our old shop. That manifold works great - depending on the application. There is a critical point when a manifold such as this one is needed. Before this point, the flow of this manifold is not needed and it can cause severe power loss. As with all components in an internal combustion engine, the efficency is only as good as the weakest link. If the heads cannot flow the air, this manifold is too large.

The engine that EVOMS built for Joe's car has been designed as a complete system - 100% in house from the ground up. The heads have been in development for the past few years and we have perfected the CNC machining procedures to create exact porting from head to head and port to port - no matter how different and inconsistant the castings are. I will provide more complete details shortly.

The entire head configuration was completely designed and developed together with the intake and exhaust port design / flow, valve diameter / flow, camshaft lift / duration, intake manifold flow, engine displacement, REV limit, throttle body diameter, exhaust diameter, etc. If one of these factors is overlooked or is not as efficent as the rest, some of the benifits on any one of these single components can be diminished or negated. The head ports are maximized ONLY when we increased the valve diameters. The head flow through the ports and the bigger valves were ONLY maximized with a carefully designed camshaft profile. These are only a few of the steps we took to build the engine that powered Joes car to 231 MPH in the mile.

There is SO much that has to be considered when developing these engines. Chad you know the good the bad and the ugly of all of this. It is not as simple as throwing some different parts on an engine and hope for the best. If it were that easy, every Porsche turbo would be making and living with 1000 + HP.

 

Art,

We developed the CNC porting program for the heads with one of the most respected heed flow engineers in the country. The specs on the heads really dont matter as a single component without the entire system. The head flow is based on the camshaft profile, intake manifold flow dynamics as well as exhaust flow and turbocharger flow. What's happening with your fuel system? After I sent detailed photos of our system, you and Batim both stopped calling Whats up?

 

Thanks for answering all the questions....You are absolutely correct about the whole thing. Betim came up with a new idea on how to make the fuel system work and believe me they are not the twin in tank set up. I will keep all of you posted on how his set up works after we go on dyno with my car. The first set up was designed on a black 996tt with a GT3 motor and results were successful on dyno. I do appreciate all your support the past two years (starting when I had my EVOMS Stage IV set up with Giac flash). You are a true genious at your work.

 

Batim was burning up my phone at this same time, then it all stopped. No worries, I was just wondering what happened - now I know. Thank you for your compliment and good luck with your project.

 

How about some barrel throttles?

 

Loren Beggs is using just such type of set up on 1badgt2's car. With such a set up Motec is required.

 

Yes indeed. EVO provided me this pic before I purchased the manifold from them. We were in the process of beginning to do our own when I found out it was available. I could not have done the research and construction for the 4 or 5K I paid for it.

When I had spoken to joetwint awhile back I understood or misunderstood that it wasn't successful on your GT3 turbo motor and you guys gave up on it. I told him at the time we really liked it with our motor configeration. If you look at the flow rates for each lift you can see what we are flowing as well as have a vague understanding of are cam profile.

You are correct in that it requires a lot of flow capabilities from the rest of the motor. You are also correct when you stated there is a lot of time and money involved in balancing the flow of all motor components.

I had made a comment awhile back to joe that there was still some power available in his motor with the turbo's he was using. Not much though. When he said his wheels were clipped I realized some compromises were being made. This doved tailed into what we learned about the GT35's and the flow required to make full use of them. We found and this isn't to say we are right, that 4.0 liters was a bare minimum required to fully drive the GT35's at a sane boost. Start using 4.3L and up and they can be driven in a nicer boost range. I'll offer you one bit of information that you may or may not have looked into. I believe your head temperatures are capable of being lowered by about 800 degrees F from those of the stock 996tt. I don't have to tell you what lower temperatures allow you to do with timing. Also, the energy available in a CD sytems will raise your eyebrows as what this translates to in motor response.

Everything you said above is spot on. Flow needs to be balanced. Especially the matching of the flow on each individual intake and exhaust port. Years ago we use to try doing all this ourselves. I soon learned to welcome help from anyone who was willing to spend the hugh amounts or time and money to design and develop these motors.

From my position, I want to say EVO's efforts are appreciated for what they are doing to continue to push the envelope.

 

Chad,
Motec is not required for those barrell throttles. We could put them on your engine if you'd like ;p Still utilizing the flybywire, etc. We're working on applications for 996t, 997t, etc. using carbon plenums and barrel throttles. The NA stuff is easy for the older 911 cars as they fit very similar to Weber carbs.
Not trying to hijack the thread, just correct a statement.

Joe,
Beautiful work on the manifolding and plumbing. Yes, it is a logical flow arrangement and that's why we adapted it so long ago. It really opens up your inlet options to much less restriction. You guys keep saying there's a Bosch MAF on there, but it sure looks like a Hitachi?

Todd Knighton
Protomotive Inc.

 

Todd,

I learned something new ......... again. When did this become available using our ECU's?

In addition, what are the advamtages or disadvantages of the single barrels versus our WC plenum and the parts for the intake you sold us? Taking into consideration our build specs which you are very familiar with.

 

Obviusly, this would not be the first time we have changed direction.

 

Thanks Todd,yes Evoms does a pretty good job fabbing the parts.You are correct in that is a Hitachi maf.That mistake on my part was due to a rum runner induced brain fart.Glad you caught it

 

Hey Joe, off-line question, what is the top speed on that Busa? I saw one in the mile that was a turbo one, holly $hit it was insane. I've only been on my bike before at 190mph and that was some scary $hit.

 

No doubt, Art! I did 182 on an 03 R1 and it was scary as sheet.

 

I want to thank woodster for bringing up the barrel TB's and joetwint for simply having a thread that sparks responses from two of the best tuner/engine builders in the world. I want to thank Todd Knighten for letting me know how recent advancements have left my knowledge lacking.

Now to the interesting part. I am going to order a carbon fiber plenum, six 50 mm throttle bodies along with the ECU modifications to make the whole package work on KA's 4.6L motor.

Again, my thanks to all involved. 6speed is simply the best Porsche forum period. Here, even the old dogs can learn new tricks.

 

My bike with the limiter removed and a few bolt ons top speed would probably be just a tick over 200.I have only been just over about 165 it tho it is pretty stable at that speed as long as there aren't any crazY cross winds.