I'm thinking of getting a Stage 2 upgrade this winter. Imagine/Evo use a FabSpeed Sport in their packages but I kinda have a hankering for a Europipe Stage II Loud. In Stephen's oustanding exhaust analysis, the Europipe did not show up as the better choice of the 2, except in the torque department below 3500 rpm. Would this be do to the EVO/Imagine systems being designed around the FabSpeed exhaust and the AFR's are therefore tuned to be optimized with their systems? The backpressure was a little higher in the Europipe (2.50lbs vs 2.25lbs in the FabSpeed), despite the Europipe II's 70mm pipe (60mm on FabSpeed?). Is it worth while to have the Stage II ECU tuning adjusted to perform better with the Europipe STG2, or simply get the FabSpeed? Perhaps the FabSpeed is a higher performance exhaust.

 

Oh yah.. I forgot this. Source=996/GT2 Exhaust Comparison - an Imagine Auto Inc. Presentation - August 7, 2003

 

Go with what Stephen recommends - Fabspeed quiet. That is what I am going to go with for my GT2 setup. Again, IMO.

 

Zippy,
Go with what works best for your needs. I have run both and the sound is different, but both are great. They both make good power in different ranges. Each have pluses and minuses. The mapping levels in the ECU are in control to about 30-40HP max. This means that the adaptive level of the ECU will run several maps and adjust to maintain the target. So one could lock the maps out in the programming, however the unit could not compensate for other elements. If the component added adds gains out side the controllable range the ECU has to be remapped to that product. So the bottom line is the muffler gains as a whole work within the boundaries of the active maps in the ECU and once the original target is set to adaptively control that level a change from one muffler to another will in 50 miles plus learn to that range and adjust. For instance, add a muffler, the ECU can adjust. Add an air cleaner, no problem. Add turbos, and now you are out side the range. AFRs go way lean because the control is not there. It is outside the limits. Add the new mapping and raise the maps and now it will control again. Each stage is calculated for average gain and the needs of the ECU among other things. The AFR is tuned for an average and the system moves to meet its wants and desires.

 

I vote EP.

 

I'm with Ken, EP Stage II Loud rocks. Not scary loud, but truly intoxicating. Music to your ears...

 

I really like what I've read and pictures I've seen regarding the EuroPipe. From the audio clips I've lestened to, the EuroPipe sounds great. But, I have a hard time leaving the HP & TQ on the table as presented in Stephen's research.

 

Stephen:

Thanks for your technical explanation of the adaptivve nature of the ECU. Your comment "Go with what works best for your needs" is the problem I face. My needs seem to be split between the 2. The Fabspeed shows the best power between 3500 and 6500 rpm. It seems to be the clear winner in that department. The EuroPipe has an exotic feeling about it and from what i read, a better sound and overall quality. In your opinion, is the smaller area under the curve in the EuroPipe a function of slightly higher backbressure? The flexability of the FabSpeed (bolt on straight pipes for the track) is very appealing!

 

I do feel that the backpressure has something to do with it. When you look at the numbers as a whole though the EP makes better power on the lower end then the chart shows. The hard data shows this. It is a fine line between need and want. The FS is outstanding in overall power and ease of install and change. I also think that a lower level of programming would show a lesser delta between the two.

 

Of course there are different strokes for different folks and this comparison can, and will, be argued until we are all in our graves. I want to share my opinions on the matter.
I will be 39 in another month and desire a more refined sound to my car. I don't want "wake the neighbors" loud. At the same time, I want a sound that gives me chills when I hear it and also a sound that will make people say, what is that exotic sound? Lastly, I want a product that is built to last a lifetime.
The Europipe satified all of these needs for me. The cold start sound is to die for and the wot sound is just as good. The build quality is on par with pharmaceutical grade piping and pressure vessels. The welds are flawless. It is an industrial work of art and I appreciate that. It exceeds the quality you would expect to find on a Porsche of this caliber. That works for me.
Some guys, typically younger, want louder and more "in your face". That is fine.....to each his own. Leaving the extra horsepower on the table as you say is true based upon Stephen's test results, but as he himself stated, there are many other factors that come into play with something like this.
My advice, as crazy as it may sound, is to determine the age of the people that are making recommendations and add that to your decision making process. In general, the older the guys, the more conservative their desires in exhaust decibel level, the younger the more liberal.
Oh yeah, one more thing. Another reason that helped me decide was the presence of the expansion bellows between the left and right halves. These bellows allow for the thermal expansion and contraction of the engine. I once calculated the overall dimensional growth of the engine as a function of the operating temperature range and amounted to about 1/8". The bellows take this up without any problem. A system without bellows must account for the engine growth by flex in the piping. Incidentally, the stock exhaust system uses bellows.

Here is a sound clip....press play
http://mluni.com/ml/FLASH/kpv/DynoDay.asp

Here is a pic of the EP installed. If you do decide on the EP, definitely go with the loud version.

 

Zippy,

I do not install or sell exhausts. I have paid retail for all my exhausts with the exception of the Fabspeed which was sent to my tuner for me to test.

I "tuned" my car for each exhaust. My tests were different than Stephen's. The different exhausts performed a little different in different rpm's. In my test the Fabspeed did produce more power but it was a spike at about 6800 rpm's. The Europipe outperformed it in most of the other ranges. The Europipe 70 mm quiet was the all around better performer on my car. I bought it after my test. I have since gone to the Europipe 85 mm exhaust.

 

Europipe Loud......

I have the ruf on my GT2 and it does not sound anywhere as good as the Europipes. There is a strange hollow pitch which goes with the already great sound which none of the others have.

Plus their customer service is like Imagineauto so you know you cant go wrong

 

Europipe Loud....

Plus they give you the strange tools needed to get around the unit. It is heavier but I jacked the car up and had no problem installing. Fit like a glove and gave me no issues putting on.

 

Zippy, the horsepower and torque curves above don't match.

 

Unless your looking to get every last possible bit of HP/TQ out of your car it is personal preference just like the wheels you select to put on your car. Some will like Fabspeeds sound and others will like something else. So buy what floats YOUR boat. Your the one that will listen to it everytime you drive the car....