Foolish!

 

jags, anyone that knows anything knows of your vendetta against Kevin, you take every opportunity to attack him and your thinly veiled attempt here is as clear as crystal. There is considerable info I know and I do know about you

In respect to Tom, and KPG I will stop here, as I do not want to open any cans like you are attempting to do. trust me not a place you want to go.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. PM sent.

Jag

OP..sorry for the OT.

 

anyways back to regular scheduled programming.

i just wanted to say awesome numbers man love it wish they were mine =)

 

I previously had a very expensive and very well-built motor in my P-car...but you know what? My next P-car will retain the stock bottom end. I won't open that motor up. I simply see no reason to these days.

Quality bolt-ons, a good set of turbos, meth/water injection and a good tune is about as far as I'll go. A set up like that in the right car with the right driver will hit 4-second 60-130's and go 200+ in standing mile. What more could you ask for?

 

Is this 4 sec even possible with the current setups out there? The best I have seen so far on stock bottom end motors are high 5 sec 60-130.

 

It's absolutely possible.

 

If possible, that's great. Cant wait for more of these setups to prove themselves like the k24/18g's.

 

It has been done but at 1.7 bar on C16.. not recommended on stock block...
I likewise share the same opinion as Scott that my next P car will have a stock block...

 

I am hoping for a sub 5.5 on the stock block. I won't go over 1.5 bars however.

 

Our engine has 66k miles on it, beat to hell. We've done some things to it that we thought would blow it, including anti-lagging 1.65 bar. So far so good, just a matter of running a great tune, and always having MS109 or C16 in the tank when you're going to beat on it. Until I see something different I'll hold similar ideas.

It's great to see properly setup cars running with stock based turbos running the same if not better times than those cars with huge turbos. I'm sure as time goes on we will see a bit more of this, especially with better tuning and additional advancements in fueling and engine management.

 

With you driving it of course

 

Wait a sec... a built motor is still octane limited like a stock motor on ignition timing unless you are compromising ignition timing on a stock motor to lower torque for fear of breaking something. I speak mainly of pump gas. Optimal timing is just that for any specific octane - more isn't helpful, once you pass peak cylinder pressure you lose power and then quickly get into detonation. A built motor can safely run more boost yes but that's not going to add timing either. Can you better explain this statement, it makes no sense to me. Are you also lowering mechanical compression when you do a build? FWIW, yeah I've tuned a few cars and understand cylinder pressure\timing\BSFC etc. This statement just confuses me is all so I'm seeking clarification...

As to this motor specifically, since it seemed to choke, could we get details on intercoolers and intake piping at least? Stock intake piping would explain much! 83lb injectors at 5bar should be close to 100lb injectors yes? 700WHP should have been doable IMO, this too confuses me! A/F? Were the injectors flowed? System voltage good? Full fuel pressure? Seems off for some reason. Seeking info guys, not trying to throw rocks...

P.S. Why in the world "build" a motor and not do any headwork? Cams at least? If you've got it that far down kripes do something to help it breathe!

P.P.S. I too am happy to see more power being made on stock blocks. I came from the Supra community and 700HP at the wheels was about where the stock cams seemed to be a restriction and a cam swap would safely get you 100more HP. No one worried about the shortblock much until you began hitting 900RWHP and then it was mostly the main caps as I understood it. This was on race gas. That was NOT always the case in that community! We got there slowly. So, I was pretty shocked to hear people in this community, on bigger 3.6l motors, fretting at the 600WHP mark. What is it about these motors that is so fragile exactly? Why exactly does anyone think 700WHP is hurting the motor and what are you sweating? Poor bearings? Rods? Pistons? These motors are a good bit bigger than the Supra, 600HP on good PUMP gas and decent turbos should NOT be scary if the motors have good rods\pistons. I am very happy to see folks like Titan, BoostLogic, and Justinn (others too) willing to push the stock motors more! Now, someone let me into the ECU please.... Okay one last thing after reading all this, run it rich and be safe, lean is not THAT much more power. Timing is where you find power - octane is your friend, detonation is most certainly NOT.

 

You just strongly question why people point out "on stock internals" when they make decent power. Why? Because EVERYONE and their mother used to say up until recently you have to build the internals at over 700hp. Oh really now? Looks at all these guys on all kinds of setups from diff people running 800+ crank hp on stock block... where are all these motors that are blowing up? Sure it happens, but where are the properly setup ones blowing up?

It's about the willingness and need to do internals up front? Why not push it as far as you can until a rod bends? Not saying you want that, but why do it up front (big $$$) when you don't necessarily have to? I can't speak for you or others, I prefer not to spend money until I have to.

I agree mostly. But the limit is being pushed every day by different people and it seems to be working. Again, the Supra reference? Or are these Porsches "different" and "special" like many would lead others to believe?

I would edit your old saying to now read:

"if you wanna play, you can still do it safely but now for less money"


Dammit Jake, that is no help!

I like hearing this from one of our resident non-builder experts who has been there and done that. This is the exact path I am on for now. Not sure I expect 4's anytime soon tho!

hey there's another guy who has been there and done that and he is not saying a motor build is necessary. Go figure!

 

I know my old 96lb injectors on my Supra were running out of fuel somewhere between 850whp and 950whp depending on the type of fuel used. C16 and Q16 took different amounts of fuel to make the power in that range and the injectors were about tapped out. The base pressure was around 40psi.

So depending on the base pressure in this car, I can see them running out in the 700-800whp range. I know Porsche uses a different regulator but this was a stock regulator?