996 Turbo or GTR?
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Originally Posted by Terminator
However, as you put it so eloquently; it appears your 11 year old son is light years ahead of you, you should learn from him.
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On a track, YES!!!!!!!!! Who wants to drive around 1000 hp with 4200 lbs? Not anyone with sense.Originally Posted by rosesplus
Most of this irrelevant diatribe is also true for the Veyron but you'd still prefer a 996TT, right?
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On a track, YES!!!!!!!!! Who wants to drive around 1000 hp with 4200 lbs? Not anyone with sense.
Originally Posted by heavychevy
On a track, YES!!!!!!!!! Who wants to drive around 1000 hp with 4200 lbs? Not anyone with sense.
at least get your facts straight, it weighs 4470 lbs
Rosesplus, at $1.8M I would rather have a Zonda F or a CGT, and an MC12. if we to liken cars to aircraft, the veyron would be a concord and the Zonda would be an F22.
Many of you keep bringing up this weight issues and defying the laws of physics, etc. Have you thought as to what the correlation between aero parts to increase downforce and weight is? There will be sacrifices made for grip and acceleration happens to be one of it. How do you think a car like the GT-R can pull over 1G in cornering and have a coefficient of drag of 0.27? BTW one of the lowest in sportscars.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/doc.asp?c=52&i=20819
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/doc.asp?c=52&i=20819
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http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/doc.asp?c=52&i=20819
1g almost entirely of mechanical, and not aerodynamic grip, we are not talking about open wheel cars.Originally Posted by jpvarghese
Many of you keep bringing up this weight issues and defying the laws of physics, etc. Have you thought as to what the correlation between aero parts to increase downforce and weight is? There will be sacrifices made for grip and acceleration happens to be one of it. How do you think a car like the GT-R can pull over 1G in cornering and have a coefficient of drag of 0.27? BTW one of the lowest in sportscars.http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/doc.asp?c=52&i=20819
Also consider that Toyo has been trying and trying and still can't make the R888 work better on the GT-R than the factory dunlops, the grip level of the GT-R isn't about all that garbage that Mizuno spits out (like the "there is no launch control" thing, that was funny) it's about the tires #1, and the AWD #2.
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http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/doc.asp?c=52&i=20819
I don’t know if you know but, GTR has especially made tyres for it, have you ever wondered why? 996TT manages 0.98G with standard performance tyres. How much do you think my wife’s Nissan Micra would pull round corners with 225 slicks all-round? Shall make a bet it will outgrip GTR? As heavy said; 1.0g is due to mechanical tyre grip. Originally Posted by jpvarghese
Many of you keep bringing up this weight issues and defying the laws of physics, etc. Have you thought as to what the correlation between aero parts to increase downforce and weight is? There will be sacrifices made for grip and acceleration happens to be one of it. How do you think a car like the GT-R can pull over 1G in cornering and have a coefficient of drag of 0.27? BTW one of the lowest in sportscars.http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/doc.asp?c=52&i=20819
Before you start tossing drag numbers around you actually need to understand what they mean... 996TT’s 0.31cd figure is with fully deployed spoiler, shut it down and it becomes 0.28cd. Also, anything with 400+bhp at about .30 is adequate for design purpose. To blow your cd argument clean out of water, would it surprise you if I tell you that F1 cars only manage 0.75cd? Well, that must mean only one thing, that being; a 996TT will murder F1 because of it's over once lesser cd drag?
Not to mention I think Sport Auto tested the Cd of the GT-R and got .31. Someone tested it and it was not as advertised. As usual.
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I bought my SL63 at full MSRP right when it first came out for $144K~. I still barely see any around to this day, but I could go back and buy one for $93K and be as exclusive and cool as if I had bought one for $144K right now.
So theres no point in discussing quality differences, pricing differences, etc as advantages as they both cost the same and we could switch between the 2 freely.
So if one car beats the other in all aspects (WHO DRIVES ON 'A TWISTY' EVERY DAY?), then its the better choice.
I admit, the 996TT - properly modded, looks very good. The fact that it is a Porsche has a better connotation to those who look at it and see you driving it, but I guarantee you will still get more attention (good attention) in the GTR.
When I drive my GTR, its NON_STOP attention from EVERYONE. GIRLS, BOYS, MEN, WOMEN, HOMELESS PEOPLE. Everyone looks, says stuff, takes pictures, videos.
I was driving home from downtown LA yesterday, and I counted no less than THREE different people filming me with their camera phones.
This never happened in my SL63 and I had it looking HOT, or any of my cars past. The only car this happens in is the GTR. Yet, I am still considering getting rid of it because its still just a "Nissan" and I am pretty brand conscious and I would like a bit higher end of an interior. Though, the 911TT (996 and 997) may have better refinements in say the leather and seats, but the actual interior is still pretty bland and lacking.
The technology in the 911TT is just old. I WANT the more advanced technology and its a thing I look for when considering a car. The old tech has disqualified a lot of cars that I REALLY want like the Bentley Continental GT and Flying Spur - I really want one of those, but the old tech kills it.
My Porsche Cayenne GTS had the same nav. as the 911's do, and I just hattteeddd it. OLD TECH.
So if I got the 996TT, I would make it look very hot with wheels, a drop, plenty of mods and would have to live with but still hate:
1) the old tech
2) the vacuum cleaner exhaust note
3) what looks like a weird seating position in comparison to the shifter.
I sat in a 997TT back in 2007 and the shifter just didn't feel in the right place for my sitting style. Way to far forward and not at enough of an angle for how far back I push the seat (all the way back). It was really weird and turned me off. The pedals were also pretty far to the right, but that is good racing, just not sure about day to day in traffic.
They all have the disadvantages, in the end I bought a GTR for now. I keep driving by Auto Gallery here in The Valley and see some really hot 911's, but keep getting shot down by the OLD TECH. The old technology kills it for me.
I'm still considering a Porsche 911 though, because in the end ... its a PORSCHE!
Have you considered a 2010 997 Turbo?Originally Posted by Fantasma
I don't see where the argument here is coming from. Anyone who bought a GTR could afford a 996TT or even a used 997TT, so its not like we are trying to talk up the GTR just because we can't afford the Porsche. I don't care how much the MSRP is, cars drop in price like a rock now a days, so while you might've paid full MSRP the guy sitting at the stop light next to you rocking the same 997TT you are driving, probably paid $30K less.I bought my SL63 at full MSRP right when it first came out for $144K~. I still barely see any around to this day, but I could go back and buy one for $93K and be as exclusive and cool as if I had bought one for $144K right now.
So theres no point in discussing quality differences, pricing differences, etc as advantages as they both cost the same and we could switch between the 2 freely.
So if one car beats the other in all aspects (WHO DRIVES ON 'A TWISTY' EVERY DAY?), then its the better choice.
I admit, the 996TT - properly modded, looks very good. The fact that it is a Porsche has a better connotation to those who look at it and see you driving it, but I guarantee you will still get more attention (good attention) in the GTR.
When I drive my GTR, its NON_STOP attention from EVERYONE. GIRLS, BOYS, MEN, WOMEN, HOMELESS PEOPLE. Everyone looks, says stuff, takes pictures, videos.
I was driving home from downtown LA yesterday, and I counted no less than THREE different people filming me with their camera phones.
This never happened in my SL63 and I had it looking HOT, or any of my cars past. The only car this happens in is the GTR. Yet, I am still considering getting rid of it because its still just a "Nissan" and I am pretty brand conscious and I would like a bit higher end of an interior. Though, the 911TT (996 and 997) may have better refinements in say the leather and seats, but the actual interior is still pretty bland and lacking.
The technology in the 911TT is just old. I WANT the more advanced technology and its a thing I look for when considering a car. The old tech has disqualified a lot of cars that I REALLY want like the Bentley Continental GT and Flying Spur - I really want one of those, but the old tech kills it.
My Porsche Cayenne GTS had the same nav. as the 911's do, and I just hattteeddd it. OLD TECH.
So if I got the 996TT, I would make it look very hot with wheels, a drop, plenty of mods and would have to live with but still hate:
1) the old tech
2) the vacuum cleaner exhaust note
3) what looks like a weird seating position in comparison to the shifter.
I sat in a 997TT back in 2007 and the shifter just didn't feel in the right place for my sitting style. Way to far forward and not at enough of an angle for how far back I push the seat (all the way back). It was really weird and turned me off. The pedals were also pretty far to the right, but that is good racing, just not sure about day to day in traffic.
They all have the disadvantages, in the end I bought a GTR for now. I keep driving by Auto Gallery here in The Valley and see some really hot 911's, but keep getting shot down by the OLD TECH. The old technology kills it for me.
I'm still considering a Porsche 911 though, because in the end ... its a PORSCHE!
The 2010 has a new DFI (Direct Fuel Injection) Engine, with VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) Turbos's, optional PTV (Porsche Torque Vectoring), optional 7 speed PDK, a newer navigation system, PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management), optional Sports Chrono and PCCB's the car would be as close to state of the art as possible for a modern day Turbo.
With the leather interior and some options the interior can be made to be quite nice. With PDK you won't have to deal with the shifter.
IMHO: The GT-R gets a lot of attention because it's a newer (not many on the road) car and because the car is huge and has a lot of presence.
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F1 drag numbers vary depending on the track and obviously you want an ideal combo of aerodynamic drag and downforce. The creation of downforce by passive devices can only be achieved at the cost of increased aerodynamic drag. How do you think F1 cars corner with such high lateral load? F1 cars might have a very high coefficient of drag, but that doesn't explain the drag FORCE because you're not accounting the FRONTAL AREA!Originally Posted by Terminator
Before you start tossing drag numbers around you actually need to understand what they mean... To blow your cd argument clean out of water, would it surprise you if I tell you that F1 cars only manage 0.75cd? Well, that must mean only one thing, that being; a 996TT will murder F1 because of it's over once lesser cd drag?
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Now how much will cornering ability be affected without the wing? According to Mizuno, there is downforce due to weight and downforce due to passive devices (aero). Power/weight is very important in forward acceleration, but for lateral acceleration, it's all about tire grip. This is why certain cars depend on spoilers (Porsche), some without spoilers but increased drag (Ferrari), and some with weight (GT-R). All methods of increasing tire load to maximize grip.Originally Posted by Terminator
996TT’s 0.31cd figure is with fully deployed spoiler, shut it down and it becomes 0.28cd. Also, anything with 400+bhp at about .30 is adequate for design purpose.
hahahahahahhaah
Heavy,
You don't want a Veyron We had 1 come to Sebring and after 3 laps the brakes were gone and it was overheating. He called the manufacturer and they told him it wasn't built for the track
It did go like stink for 3 laps.
Peter
You don't want a Veyron
We had 1 come to Sebring and after 3 laps the brakes were gone and it was overheating. He called the manufacturer and they told him it wasn't built for the track It did go like stink for 3 laps.Peter
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You don't want a Veyron We had 1 come to Sebring and after 3 laps the brakes were gone and it was overheating. He called the manufacturer and they told him it wasn't built for the track It did go like stink for 3 laps.
Peter
Originally Posted by XPGT2
Heavy,You don't want a Veyron
We had 1 come to Sebring and after 3 laps the brakes were gone and it was overheating. He called the manufacturer and they told him it wasn't built for the track It did go like stink for 3 laps.Peter
no, he does want one, so he can change his name to heavybugga
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No, no, no I am giving up here... Originally Posted by jpvarghese
Now how much will cornering ability be affected without the wing? According to Mizuno, there is downforce due to weight and downforce due to passive devices (aero). Power/weight is very important in forward acceleration, but for lateral acceleration, it's all about tire grip. This is why certain cars depend on spoilers (Porsche), some without spoilers but increased drag (Ferrari), and some with weight (GT-R). All methods of increasing tire load to maximize grip.
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