well, in order to verify that one, that same dyno would have had to run a 997 GT2 on the same day/time, for it to mean anything. Rating wise the GT2 is rated higher and has less weight, a lot less weight. So regardless even if the turbo was putting out 30 bhp more than the GT2 it would still have to make up 200 lbs of weight.

 

Odd, I wasn't trying to win anything? Thanks for chatting though.

 

just messing around. But no one has our car manufacturers beat when it comes to recalls. Again, I don't think the quality of our cars is anywhere near that of Japanese cars at the same price level. And our best doesn't compare. Performance wise, yes. Not many cars will beat a ZO6 or ZR1 in a straight line.

 

Yes, we can clearly see what works better. AWD.

123 is the slowest trap I've seen for the GT2, I'm sure you could have picked a better one to compare to the best Turbo time.

Like I said, from a dig is two different stories as driver skill makes a huge difference with a Manual.

The fact remains that if a stock GT-R is tying or beating you from a roll you ARE NOT making 500 whp. That is a fact. There are guys beating GT-R's with stock K16's flashed, or slight mods to an M6. Yet a 500 whp Turbo can't beat one? Not in this lifetime, PDK or not.

 

I just picked a test out of Road and Track. I totally agree about dig. I have seen two GTR's dynoed and both put out 428 whp with a 15% altitude correction factor. So reality up here would have been 372. If you use realistic correction factor of 8-9%, the real number is closer to 400 at the wheels. Respectable but no way can a beat a 500 whp porsche. I think I proved your point. Not sure. So you are probably right, the porsche is probably making closer to 450 whp. or so. I still think the GTR's tranny does give it an edge in overall performance.

 

Overall the American cars are not as good, I agree w/ you on that. But this is the flagship of Japanese car companies. For me this Toyota recall has changed things and given the American car companies a huge opportunity. I hope they take advantage.
I haven't looked it up, on the Iphone now so I won't. But I doubt any car company has ever had this many cars recalled ( esp world wide ) then this mess Toyota has caused themself.

 

It isn't necessarily the gearing, but there is less boost up there as well (when running from a stand still).

There is really a long boring explanation for this... But this is the main reason why so many users put the Cobb tune on their cars. It doesn't make that much 'more' power - it just 'fixes' the boost at higher speeds - to the way it should've been from the factory.

The gears are pretty evenly spaced 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 195.

 

Motor Trend took a 997 GT2 to 11.4 @ 127.9. But yes, I agree with you that with a PDK tranny, the GT2 would be even quicker. That's the advantage of a tranny that allows you to stay completely under boost between shifts, without the parasitic losses of an automatic.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...fications.html

 

I like this argument...
So all the crappy products American companies have made in China are the American companies fault? i'd agree.

BTW, I think this Toyota thing is seriously overblown to benefit US car companies (It will be Ford that benefits, my pet peeve). Looking at this historically, Ford has gotten away with a lot,
- Building an inherently unsafe vehicle (Explorer), when they roll it's Firestone's fault (foreign company)
- Faulty ignition modules causing vehicles to die anytime (pulling out of junctions, dangerous situations)
- Vehicles spontaneously catching fire sitting in the driveway.
How do they get away with all this and this is THE profitable US car maker.

 

Yes, it is the American company's fault that an inferior product is allowed to represent them in the market.
Ford gets away w/ it for the same reason our tax dollars were used to save Chevy and Dodge. The #s of the recall aren't overblown, in fact I think the reason it's such a big deal is because it's the first real kink Toyota's reputation.

I doubt the American or the European auto worker knew they were putting defective units in the cars. The main people at Toyota over at Corp Japan did. Just like Ford's main people did regardless of where the part came from.

 

You know cuz you were there ?

WE did 3 rolls, GTR driving trying both manual and auto shifting... same result everytime.

We know each other and were both 100% on it.... it happened, deal with it !

 

GT-R is an awsome car, no doubt - but after all, it is a Nissan... and at close to $80K, is ANY Nissan worth this?

 

Exactly what I have been saying. The american auto companies have been turning out crap for 30 plus years. The best American car rated was the Taurus for many years. I drove 3 in a row for about 5 years. One day I pull up to a stop light in downtown DC and I see a wheel go rolling by me and hit the light post across the street. I looked around to see where it came from, but no car had an issue. As I accelerate, I notice my back end is low and making noises. F$%K it's my car!!! The car had 80k miles. My other Taurus lost it's steering pump at 40k miles.

A coworker of mine has a recall on her Chrysler. the recall is for replacement of ball joints on both sides in front. She had her wheel buckle and break last year and she got it fixed. Dealer told her that if she had been on the freeway, it would have been a major accident. This was before a recall. Do you think that they started the recall because of accidents, I bet they did.

Talk to DEEPBLUE about his experiences with Ford And the quality they put in their top of the line cars.

No one can ever say that American car quality even comes close to Japanese.

 

I know we're way off topic..!
Does this mean Honda is top of the heap now in quality? If they ever get their sh.. together & use the Formula 1 expertise, go back to sensible design (the new Acura stuff is crazy looking) AND keep the quality up they'll be top of the heap IMO (and I don't mean the JD Powers "Dodge Neon" is "best in quality" type of rating)

 

I know we got off the base subject but i cannot agree more that there is a certain degree of political motivation behind what is starting to look like a witch hunt!