997.2 Intercoolers - Wow!
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159
From: Valhalla
Rep Power: 27
I completly agree with you its not like its rocket science do a few tests and show that the product you sell isbetter than oem . And credits to earl3 for doing the tests .
Earl,
I agree about the data point. I, like most here, am a data guy. I can't see why ECU tuning, intercooler, and exhaust manufacturers do not have data for ALL of their products. It seems like a flow resistance test, temperature readings, and a dynograph would be standard fare for the manufacturers who claim to make our cars better.
Great work. we all appreciate it! I already bought my 997.2 intercoolers today. Thanks for the great writeup.
I agree about the data point. I, like most here, am a data guy. I can't see why ECU tuning, intercooler, and exhaust manufacturers do not have data for ALL of their products. It seems like a flow resistance test, temperature readings, and a dynograph would be standard fare for the manufacturers who claim to make our cars better.
Great work. we all appreciate it! I already bought my 997.2 intercoolers today. Thanks for the great writeup.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 269
From: los angeles
Rep Power: 29
um, its because many of their products won't sell if they publish their data.... marketing 101
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 823
From: Mojave, CA
Rep Power: 133
Little more data:
Run 1 is the full 1-4 pull to ~130mph
Run 2 is 3-4 pull (~110mph)
Run 3 is a 4th gear pull from 40~115mph
Run 4 is a 3-4 pull (~115mph)
I've included the difference (delta) in temp on the plot as well. You can draw your own conclusions as to where the trends are headed. The chart's kinda fugly but the numbers are there. In most cases, when you hit ~55C, the DME will pull timing & richen the mixture.
Run 1 is the full 1-4 pull to ~130mph
Run 2 is 3-4 pull (~110mph)
Run 3 is a 4th gear pull from 40~115mph
Run 4 is a 3-4 pull (~115mph)
I've included the difference (delta) in temp on the plot as well. You can draw your own conclusions as to where the trends are headed. The chart's kinda fugly but the numbers are there. In most cases, when you hit ~55C, the DME will pull timing & richen the mixture.
Last edited by earl3; Oct 16, 2010 at 08:55 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 141
From: Houston, Tx
Rep Power: 22
Thank you Earl, that is great that you are willing to document and share the info with the rest of the board.
This is what I have learned through similar testing regarding bar & plate vs tube & fin type cores:
As mentioned Bar & Plate cores can be more effective per given volume/size, due to the increased mass(weight) acting as a larger heat sink. So they can absorb more heat before saturation (heat soak) sets in. On the flip side they take longer to shed that same captured heat. So at lower speeds where air flow accross the core is not the best, they will eventualy accumulate more and more heat and start to lose their efficiency.
Tube & Fin cores are lighter and can on some designs can have more surface area per given core size, so they can absorb heat faster than the Bar & Plate. Because they also have less mass they can saturate quicker, but also shed heat and return closer to ambient temps more rapidly as a result.
It's pretty difficult to design a better IC by seat of the pants engineering, the idea that bigger cores and larger end tanks are always better is a misconception.
This is what I have learned through similar testing regarding bar & plate vs tube & fin type cores:
As mentioned Bar & Plate cores can be more effective per given volume/size, due to the increased mass(weight) acting as a larger heat sink. So they can absorb more heat before saturation (heat soak) sets in. On the flip side they take longer to shed that same captured heat. So at lower speeds where air flow accross the core is not the best, they will eventualy accumulate more and more heat and start to lose their efficiency.
Tube & Fin cores are lighter and can on some designs can have more surface area per given core size, so they can absorb heat faster than the Bar & Plate. Because they also have less mass they can saturate quicker, but also shed heat and return closer to ambient temps more rapidly as a result.
It's pretty difficult to design a better IC by seat of the pants engineering, the idea that bigger cores and larger end tanks are always better is a misconception.
Mark,
Thank you -I appreciate all the comments (good or bad!) & dialog from everyone here, but this means a lot coming from you. If I had the coin & wasn't so hard headed, I would have a set of your coolers -there is a lot to be said for avoiding headaches with a strong performing, direct replacement option such as yours. I hope these .2 coolers will open the door for better performance and more safety for folks with mild to moderate upgrades, but make no mistake, they will require getting one's hands a little dirty & some cutting and trimming -not everyone's cup of tea.
Thank you -I appreciate all the comments (good or bad!) & dialog from everyone here, but this means a lot coming from you. If I had the coin & wasn't so hard headed, I would have a set of your coolers -there is a lot to be said for avoiding headaches with a strong performing, direct replacement option such as yours. I hope these .2 coolers will open the door for better performance and more safety for folks with mild to moderate upgrades, but make no mistake, they will require getting one's hands a little dirty & some cutting and trimming -not everyone's cup of tea.
best
mark
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,018
From: el salvador
Rep Power: 147
Earl scientific man,thank you for this so value info.It's very understanding even for someone like me that doesn't know anything about intercoolers or that type of phisics.
Explandid job,congrats
Explandid job,congrats
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 284
From: san francisco
Rep Power: 34
Yes I agree that for moderate upgrades these should be more then enough... heck, they come on P cars with considerably more HP out of the box then the dinosaur 996... so they should be more efficient. Fitment? the 997 IC brackets are different.. so yes someone has to get dirty and make it work... most guys want plug n play... otherwise a shop will charge them twice the price... But the mere fact that on a basic set up like yours you were able to lower the temps by that much only proves how much ICs are important.. something I have been promoting for 6 years....
best
mark
best
mark
lol
hows everything else with the car?
hows everything else with the car?
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,671
From: Athens
Rep Power: 135
Could you please be more precise on that?Did you measure any IAT before and after?
...Sorry guys, I missed a page here and just saw all details and IATs...Excellent work done,rep,rep,rep...Tomorrow morning i will order them...
...Sorry guys, I missed a page here and just saw all details and IATs...Excellent work done,rep,rep,rep...Tomorrow morning i will order them...
Last edited by skandalis447; Oct 17, 2010 at 12:37 PM.
