Streetable 700 AWHP 996 Turbo
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Streetable 700 AWHP 996 Turbo
Hi everybody.
I'm a newbie here. I've decided that I want a 700 WHP or more AWD car. It must be able to reach 700 AWHP on 91-93 octane pump gas. The best and most economical option seems like buying a 996 Turbo and modifying it. I have not purchased the car yet but I have my eyes on a 2003 996 Turbo Tiptronic. I have couple of questions before I make my decision.
I have seen that there are some packages out there for 996 Turbos. I was thinking about converting to GT3071 or GT3076 dual ball bearing water cooled turbos with Tial external wastegates and intercoolers, fuel system, etc to support that.
Can the stock engine handle 700 AWHP? Does the stock engine come with forged pistons?
Will it be enough to replace the pistons and connecting rods with forged internals and call it a day or do I also need to replace the crankshaft with billet and add billet main caps?
How are the stock heads on the 996 Turbo in terms of flow numbers? Do they need to be upgraded for 700 AWHP?
How about the drivetrain? Can the stock tiptronic drivetrain handle 700 AWHP? Is it better to go with a Manual 996 Turbo for 700 AWHP? Can the front, center and rear differentials handle 700 AWHP and launches with that much power? How about the halfshafts?
I know it's a lot of questions. Thank you for all the answers and advices.
I'm a newbie here. I've decided that I want a 700 WHP or more AWD car. It must be able to reach 700 AWHP on 91-93 octane pump gas. The best and most economical option seems like buying a 996 Turbo and modifying it. I have not purchased the car yet but I have my eyes on a 2003 996 Turbo Tiptronic. I have couple of questions before I make my decision.
I have seen that there are some packages out there for 996 Turbos. I was thinking about converting to GT3071 or GT3076 dual ball bearing water cooled turbos with Tial external wastegates and intercoolers, fuel system, etc to support that.
Can the stock engine handle 700 AWHP? Does the stock engine come with forged pistons?
Will it be enough to replace the pistons and connecting rods with forged internals and call it a day or do I also need to replace the crankshaft with billet and add billet main caps?
How are the stock heads on the 996 Turbo in terms of flow numbers? Do they need to be upgraded for 700 AWHP?
How about the drivetrain? Can the stock tiptronic drivetrain handle 700 AWHP? Is it better to go with a Manual 996 Turbo for 700 AWHP? Can the front, center and rear differentials handle 700 AWHP and launches with that much power? How about the halfshafts?
I know it's a lot of questions. Thank you for all the answers and advices.
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The engine can handle it but you might want to change to a manual trans. I wouldn't put 700+WHP on a tip but that's just me.
Get in touch w/ Markski ( 911Tuning. Comm) he will have some great info for you. You'll need to get bigger drive shafts IMO as well.
Get in touch w/ Markski ( 911Tuning. Comm) he will have some great info for you. You'll need to get bigger drive shafts IMO as well.
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I think with your HP goals you should look at a 6 speed transmission car, I believe 550 to 600 is the max for the TIP cars.. contact SWITZER... he can build what ever your looking for, and I believe he might have some TIP packages you might be interested in..MARKSKI is another person you can contact..
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Yep, Neil Switzer is top notch as well. He and Mark are both hands on and have designed, built, and ran cars of this HP. They both love Porsche cars and have spent years making their products.
Talk to both, listen to each as they have 2 different paths to what you are wanting. Then talk to a few of the guys they have built this kind of HP for, then go w/ the tuner you feel the best about.
Talk to both, listen to each as they have 2 different paths to what you are wanting. Then talk to a few of the guys they have built this kind of HP for, then go w/ the tuner you feel the best about.
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Among the available used 996 turbos for sale here most of them are tiptronic. There are only couple manual 2001 models. The 2003 996 Turbo tip I have my eyes set on looks very nice.
I guess at 700+ AWHP, the transmission will have to beefed up anyway. In the case of a manual transmission probably the clutch and flywheel will have to be modified at a min and in the case of a tiptronic transmission, probably the clutch packs and the converter will have to be modified.
What is the cost difference between modifying a manual tranny vs a tiptronic tranny to hold 700+ AWHP?
Does the tiptronic tranny have advantages over the manual tranny in drag and road racing if both are beefed up to support high HP?
I guess at 700+ AWHP, the transmission will have to beefed up anyway. In the case of a manual transmission probably the clutch and flywheel will have to be modified at a min and in the case of a tiptronic transmission, probably the clutch packs and the converter will have to be modified.
What is the cost difference between modifying a manual tranny vs a tiptronic tranny to hold 700+ AWHP?
Does the tiptronic tranny have advantages over the manual tranny in drag and road racing if both are beefed up to support high HP?
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The tip's advantage is in a DD. I love mine for that. You Can get a stall converter and that helps in street racing. There is a few guys that can beef them up to hold a lot more HP but my understanding is that it cost about 8K?
But you can dump ( no pun intended ) 5K on a clutch as well for a standard trans.
Both will need bigger drive shafts. Markski has some, the last I heard he was pushing well over 1,000 crank hp in a 2001 TT.
Again, he and Switzer know their stuff and will get you to where you want. Talk to both of them and go w/ who you feel the most comfortable w/.
Both of them have works of art that work when it comes to their products IMO.
Good luck and keep us in the loop as you buy and build this car.
But you can dump ( no pun intended ) 5K on a clutch as well for a standard trans.
Both will need bigger drive shafts. Markski has some, the last I heard he was pushing well over 1,000 crank hp in a 2001 TT.
Again, he and Switzer know their stuff and will get you to where you want. Talk to both of them and go w/ who you feel the most comfortable w/.
Both of them have works of art that work when it comes to their products IMO.
Good luck and keep us in the loop as you buy and build this car.
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Tip will never handle 700 whp...I have told several people that, they didn't listen and learned the hard way.
Also, you are not going to make 700 on pump, certainly not 91. You can, however, make well into the 600 range on pump, my car does but I have pretty much every possible bolt on mod you can have. On race gas you will make over 700, possibly more than 750. It will take about $30K and again, don't waste your time with a chicktronic.
Also, you are not going to make 700 on pump, certainly not 91. You can, however, make well into the 600 range on pump, my car does but I have pretty much every possible bolt on mod you can have. On race gas you will make over 700, possibly more than 750. It will take about $30K and again, don't waste your time with a chicktronic.
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Hi everybody.
I'm a newbie here. I've decided that I want a 700 WHP or more AWD car. It must be able to reach 700 AWHP on 91-93 octane pump gas. The best and most economical option seems like buying a 996 Turbo and modifying it. I have not purchased the car yet but I have my eyes on a 2003 996 Turbo Tiptronic. I have couple of questions before I make my decision.
You will chew up the front diff at 700whp its not if its when so essentially your going to build a RWD 700whp car. the front drivetrain really only takes 50ftlbs of torque any more and it just cant handle it.
most dont even know their front diff is gone till they try to do an AWD dyno and the front drum doesnt move.
I have seen that there are some packages out there for 996 Turbos. I was thinking about converting to GT3071 or GT3076 dual ball bearing water cooled turbos with Tial external wastegates and intercoolers, fuel system, etc to support that.
if you have a local fabricator to make the exhaust manifolds this is a good route but if not you really dont save much and they can be a real pain to install causing the cost to raise quickly if not doing the work yourself. Tial makes a new exhaust housing and most of the big tuners use them in the form of an alpha 30 which you can get 3071 or 76 etc. its a garrett cartridge with modified KKK exhaust housing. to use these turbos your going to want big intercoolers 4" or larger (protomotive4.5, switzer 6", Markski 5" TPChas some blitzkreig ones too) you will need larger injectors and a second fuel pump. also will need larger inlet pipes (airfilter to turbo *fresh air*)
if a Tip car there isn't much for modifiying them for more power there is a TCU made by evoms and a company that does rebuilds but other then that i dont know of much. at 700whp if you beat on it expect a 4-6k tranny rebuild oin your future.
if a manual your gonna spend minimum 2500 for a clutch that will be on the verge of holding. to 3600-4900 for the different dual plate clutch setups Carbonetics or Tilton
now tunes for this will be in the 1500$-2000$ range Switzer has a nice kit, so does Markski with Protomotive tuning, EPL can also take care of ya.
Can the stock engine handle 700 AWHP? Does the stock engine come with forged pistons?
700awhp tuned properly has lasted in a few cars. some others not tuned properly it hasnt worked out as well.
the rods are the weak spot in the Motor the RODS are actually a 993NA rod and are weak in the 700-900ftlbs of torque range
Will it be enough to replace the pistons and connecting rods with forged internals and call it a day or do I also need to replace the crankshaft with billet and add billet main caps?
just replacing the rods and pistons is gonna be 100 hours of labor so at 100$ an hr 10k just for labor no parts, roughly 3-4k in misc parts for the rebuild gasket and such. then 2-3k for rods.
How are the stock heads on the 996 Turbo in terms of flow numbers? Do they need to be upgraded for 700 AWHP? NO keep it all stock
Pauter rods/carillo (need to modify oil pump for clearance) is all you need if you have someone familar enough with the cars to get the head to seal your fine if not you'll be back replacing the headgasket quickly.
crank is fine, main caps are fine, the stock heads flow enough for 900whp but you need big boost and built bottom end to do this all day every day.
now there are 3.8litre piston sleeve kits(5k) which some tuners have seen a 180ftlb of torque increase with the same 3076 turbos on
Heads can be ported which have good gains witha gt3 style port pair this with cams and on a built motor(3.8) with big turbos (gt35) you can see 1100whp but you into this build about 60-70k easily at this point
How about the drivetrain? Can the stock tiptronic drivetrain handle 700 AWHP? Is it better to go with a Manual 996 Turbo for 700 AWHP? Can the front, center and rear differentials handle 700 AWHP and launches with that much power? How about the halfshafts?
front drivetrain will die pretty quickly so your gonna end up with a RWD car unless you keep spending $$ on replacing a fairly useless front diff constantly. the rear axles if you dont abuse the car from launches at the drag strip the stock axles have handled 1160rwhp in some cars. but hard launches will quickly snap them.
you can get a nice LSD for under 2k to keep you tires planted OS giken, gaurds, carbonetics all have units.
I know it's a lot of questions. Thank you for all the answers and advices.
I'm a newbie here. I've decided that I want a 700 WHP or more AWD car. It must be able to reach 700 AWHP on 91-93 octane pump gas. The best and most economical option seems like buying a 996 Turbo and modifying it. I have not purchased the car yet but I have my eyes on a 2003 996 Turbo Tiptronic. I have couple of questions before I make my decision.
You will chew up the front diff at 700whp its not if its when so essentially your going to build a RWD 700whp car. the front drivetrain really only takes 50ftlbs of torque any more and it just cant handle it.
most dont even know their front diff is gone till they try to do an AWD dyno and the front drum doesnt move.
I have seen that there are some packages out there for 996 Turbos. I was thinking about converting to GT3071 or GT3076 dual ball bearing water cooled turbos with Tial external wastegates and intercoolers, fuel system, etc to support that.
if you have a local fabricator to make the exhaust manifolds this is a good route but if not you really dont save much and they can be a real pain to install causing the cost to raise quickly if not doing the work yourself. Tial makes a new exhaust housing and most of the big tuners use them in the form of an alpha 30 which you can get 3071 or 76 etc. its a garrett cartridge with modified KKK exhaust housing. to use these turbos your going to want big intercoolers 4" or larger (protomotive4.5, switzer 6", Markski 5" TPChas some blitzkreig ones too) you will need larger injectors and a second fuel pump. also will need larger inlet pipes (airfilter to turbo *fresh air*)
if a Tip car there isn't much for modifiying them for more power there is a TCU made by evoms and a company that does rebuilds but other then that i dont know of much. at 700whp if you beat on it expect a 4-6k tranny rebuild oin your future.
if a manual your gonna spend minimum 2500 for a clutch that will be on the verge of holding. to 3600-4900 for the different dual plate clutch setups Carbonetics or Tilton
now tunes for this will be in the 1500$-2000$ range Switzer has a nice kit, so does Markski with Protomotive tuning, EPL can also take care of ya.
Can the stock engine handle 700 AWHP? Does the stock engine come with forged pistons?
700awhp tuned properly has lasted in a few cars. some others not tuned properly it hasnt worked out as well.
the rods are the weak spot in the Motor the RODS are actually a 993NA rod and are weak in the 700-900ftlbs of torque range
Will it be enough to replace the pistons and connecting rods with forged internals and call it a day or do I also need to replace the crankshaft with billet and add billet main caps?
just replacing the rods and pistons is gonna be 100 hours of labor so at 100$ an hr 10k just for labor no parts, roughly 3-4k in misc parts for the rebuild gasket and such. then 2-3k for rods.
How are the stock heads on the 996 Turbo in terms of flow numbers? Do they need to be upgraded for 700 AWHP? NO keep it all stock
Pauter rods/carillo (need to modify oil pump for clearance) is all you need if you have someone familar enough with the cars to get the head to seal your fine if not you'll be back replacing the headgasket quickly.
crank is fine, main caps are fine, the stock heads flow enough for 900whp but you need big boost and built bottom end to do this all day every day.
now there are 3.8litre piston sleeve kits(5k) which some tuners have seen a 180ftlb of torque increase with the same 3076 turbos on
Heads can be ported which have good gains witha gt3 style port pair this with cams and on a built motor(3.8) with big turbos (gt35) you can see 1100whp but you into this build about 60-70k easily at this point
How about the drivetrain? Can the stock tiptronic drivetrain handle 700 AWHP? Is it better to go with a Manual 996 Turbo for 700 AWHP? Can the front, center and rear differentials handle 700 AWHP and launches with that much power? How about the halfshafts?
front drivetrain will die pretty quickly so your gonna end up with a RWD car unless you keep spending $$ on replacing a fairly useless front diff constantly. the rear axles if you dont abuse the car from launches at the drag strip the stock axles have handled 1160rwhp in some cars. but hard launches will quickly snap them.
you can get a nice LSD for under 2k to keep you tires planted OS giken, gaurds, carbonetics all have units.
I know it's a lot of questions. Thank you for all the answers and advices.
see answers above
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my suggestion,
tial turbos stock exhaust manifold, internally gated turbo 3071 for tip (5-6K)
4" or larger intercoolers 3-5K
inlet pipes at minimum Proto/USP ($850-1000)(or Blow through MAF setup 3k)
injectors and inline fuel pump (1500ish)
3" x style exhaust 2k-5k
Tune by Proto/switzer/EPL 2k
but this is not gonna make 700whp without race gas and really pushing the limits.
all these mods can be done without dropping the motor the injectors and inlet pipes being the most difficult and most places will want to drop the motor to do these.
this setup would definately put a smile on your face and smoke alot of things on the road. but as this is getting to the point where you can break the transmission and stock bottom end know and understand what your chosen tuner says to keep you car in good health.
tial turbos stock exhaust manifold, internally gated turbo 3071 for tip (5-6K)
4" or larger intercoolers 3-5K
inlet pipes at minimum Proto/USP ($850-1000)(or Blow through MAF setup 3k)
injectors and inline fuel pump (1500ish)
3" x style exhaust 2k-5k
Tune by Proto/switzer/EPL 2k
but this is not gonna make 700whp without race gas and really pushing the limits.
all these mods can be done without dropping the motor the injectors and inlet pipes being the most difficult and most places will want to drop the motor to do these.
this setup would definately put a smile on your face and smoke alot of things on the road. but as this is getting to the point where you can break the transmission and stock bottom end know and understand what your chosen tuner says to keep you car in good health.
Last edited by OS Inspector; Nov 7, 2010 at 02:46 PM.
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Tip will never handle 700 whp...I have told several people that, they didn't listen and learned the hard way.
Also, you are not going to make 700 on pump, certainly not 91. You can, however, make well into the 600 range on pump, my car does but I have pretty much every possible bolt on mod you can have. On race gas you will make over 700, possibly more than 750. It will take about $30K and again, don't waste your time with a chicktronic.
Also, you are not going to make 700 on pump, certainly not 91. You can, however, make well into the 600 range on pump, my car does but I have pretty much every possible bolt on mod you can have. On race gas you will make over 700, possibly more than 750. It will take about $30K and again, don't waste your time with a chicktronic.
I want all the chicktronics on this car. I already have a no mercy 1200 RWHP Heffner Twin Turbo Viper SRT-10 that I can kill myself in at any split second mistake. This 996 TT is going to be my 700 AWHP daily driver.
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I do not agree with you on not being able to make 700 AWHP on pump gas. I don't know much about 996 Turbo engines but it should be doable with correct sized turbos. Based on the advertisements, the Switzer P800 Alpha package makes 700 AWHP on 93 octane pump gas for $18,990. I'm not sure if this includes installation. Similarly, 911 Tuning's Ski850GT package makes over 700 AWHP on 93 octane.
I want all the chicktronics on this car. I already have a no mercy 1200 RWHP Heffner Twin Turbo Viper SRT-10 that I can kill myself in at any split second mistake. This 996 TT is going to be my 700 AWHP daily driver.
I want all the chicktronics on this car. I already have a no mercy 1200 RWHP Heffner Twin Turbo Viper SRT-10 that I can kill myself in at any split second mistake. This 996 TT is going to be my 700 AWHP daily driver.
dont focus on the number as much as how the car performs are you wnating a highway queen or a quick enjoyable street car?
quick spooking alpha 28's and k24/18g's make alot of people happy with such a drivable car.versus larger laggy highway top end setups.
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I do not agree with you on not being able to make 700 AWHP on pump gas. I don't know much about 996 Turbo engines but it should be doable with correct sized turbos. Based on the advertisements, the Switzer P800 Alpha package makes 700 AWHP on 93 octane pump gas for $18,990. I'm not sure if this includes installation. Similarly, 911 Tuning's Ski850GT package makes over 700 AWHP on 93 octane.
I want all the chicktronics on this car. I already have a no mercy 1200 RWHP Heffner Twin Turbo Viper SRT-10 that I can kill myself in at any split second mistake. This 996 TT is going to be my 700 AWHP daily driver.
I want all the chicktronics on this car. I already have a no mercy 1200 RWHP Heffner Twin Turbo Viper SRT-10 that I can kill myself in at any split second mistake. This 996 TT is going to be my 700 AWHP daily driver.
One thing I will say is that Switzer and Marks packages are excellent choices. No, the price does not include installation, nor will a Chicktronic handle the power. I know many people with both packages (one of Marks set ups was just for sale....it made 724 on race gas...not pump) and what power they are making but I won't confuse you with the facts anymore.
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I don't know of an affordable kit that will get a solid 700whp on 93 pump (much less 91 oct). The two kits you mention will get high 600s (ie 670+) on a dynojet (the most favorable) on pump. Of course, I will defer to the makers of these kits if I am misquoting their numbers. Now that equates to roughly 800 engine hp which is also a worthy goal.
If you want a DD, I would suggest you go with the A28 turbos. They are not the cheapest option but they have the least lag of the turbo setups capable of approaching the parameters you mention. They also do not require a super expensive clutch. I have used the stage 4 EVOMS with good results. Unless you want to send the Tip to Mercedes for an expensive rebuild ( I think 5-7K) then get a six speed.
Several tuners can build a good high end A28 setup including EVOMS, Switzer, Markski, Epl, and others. Do you homework and make the best decision!!
If you want a DD, I would suggest you go with the A28 turbos. They are not the cheapest option but they have the least lag of the turbo setups capable of approaching the parameters you mention. They also do not require a super expensive clutch. I have used the stage 4 EVOMS with good results. Unless you want to send the Tip to Mercedes for an expensive rebuild ( I think 5-7K) then get a six speed.
Several tuners can build a good high end A28 setup including EVOMS, Switzer, Markski, Epl, and others. Do you homework and make the best decision!!