I would like to upgrade the suspension on my car to put more camber in. When I first started doing DEs, I went for a mostly street setup with PSS10s and GMG sways, GT2 ride height and street tires, but now that the DE bug has me and I have been running Toyo R888s and am thinking of MPS Cups or Hoosiers, I want to run more camber. Something like -2.5F and -2.0R. I will still drive the car on the street around town, but it's not a daily driver.

I feel like the next step is Front Lower control arms, Thrust bushings, and probably new drop links as I am currently running stock. On the back and am thinking dog bones, toe links, drop links and maybe lower control arms.

I am leaning toward the RSS Tarmac lower control arms, as I think they come with the monoball ends and thrust bushings already so they are a good value, but would like opinions on brands for all of the above. So far I have looked at OEM, GMG, Tarret/ERP, and RSS versions of all of these bits.

I am looking for opinions for those who have gone before me and have actual experience with these setups.

Also, do I need lower control arms for the back?

 

Do you have monoball upper mounts for the suspension? Get some of those, they tremendously improve the responsiveness of the vehicle.

In my opinion though, of the brands you mentioned, you could almost go blindfolded and pick the parts out of a bin and come out on top, they are all excellent. Tarret/TRG/GMG/OEM have been on racing cars for years and years, grand-am, Lemans, Supercup, many series you see Porsches running in they supply parts to.

RSS is fairly new relatively I think, but I wouldn't think twice about putting one of their parts on my car as they seem to do their homework, are quick to fix any problems and have great customer service.

I'm not really familiar with ERP.

I have OEM Motorsport lower control arms with solid bushings and caster pucks, TRG front drop links, Tarett rear drop links, Motorsport rear upper control arms (no adjustment), GT3 front and rear sways and motorsport rear toe arms with Tarett bump steer outer toe kit.

I don't advise getting upper control arms if you are getting lower ones, that money is better spent on upper monoball mounts and camber plates. You can get some monoballs installed in the rear upper control arms or leave them alone. Definitely want toe arms and LOCKING PLATES if you have ANY curbs to jump. Jumping curbs or really bumpy tracks will cause the stock eccentric to slip and next thing you know you have toe out in the back and the car is a wild nasty beast!!!

If I were you I would go with the lowers for sure, upper camber plates and monoball mounts for the upper rear suspension mount, toe arms, locking plates. Dog bones IMO are for people who run low ride height and want more POSITIVE camber for tire wear.

 

The PSS10's work well on the street but will not perform as you would like on the track. Also the grip of your Toyo's are over powering the rest of your stock suspension.

If you're going to go in, go all in. Consider the following:
Moton club sports with adjustable monoball camber plate top mounts. If you don't want to deal with mounting the separate reservoirs consider the KW variant 3 or club sports.
Rear Dog bones (mainly to get rid of the rubber bushings, the monoball camber plates will give you lots of negative camber adjustment)
Front/rear bump steer adjustable toe links
Front and Rear adjustable lower control arms (these might be redundant with the monoball camber plates and/or rear dog bones)
Solid thrust bushings
Front and Rear adjustable sway bar drop links
After you've done all this your stock drive train mounts will let the drive train move around too much. This needs to be dealt with.
Semi solid (Wevo) motor mounts
997 transmission carrier or there is an after market one with derlin inserts instead of rubber.
GT3RS shifter (not as short as the 997SS but it has billet aluminum bushings instead of plastic)
You should also think about a GT3RS clutch or similar assembly as the dual mass flywheel clutch assembly on a 996tt is not going to last very long with heavy track use.
If you have PCCB brakes replace them with steel rotors/pads. They will just get destroyed on the track and they are stupid expensive to replace.

All the manufacturers you've mentioned are very good. Your GMG sway bars should be fine. The final result is a not a set it and forget it suspension (in some ways it's overkill such as the upper adjustable camber plates serve the same function as the adjustable lower control arms). Its way more complicated than just the clicks on the PSS10's and the different holes in your sway bars. Be prepared for alot more suspension noise. You've basically removed all the sound deadening rubber bushings and replaced them with solid type bushings.

Best of luck. I'm sure many of the board sponsors can put a comprehensive package together for you.

 

Thanks for the advice. I am going to proceed with RSS Lower control Arms on all four corners, dog bones in the rear, toe links in the rear and camber plates up front, but before I pull the trigger, I continue to hear that my PSS10s will be by far the weak track link and that Motons, JRZs or KWV3s would complete the package.

So, none of these dampers are cheap, which raises a few questions:

1.) Is it too risky to buy used or freshly rebuilt dampers? If used, how much do rebuilds typically cost? Are five year old Motons that are freshly rebuilt significantly worse than new ones? You get the idea here?

2.) Which JRZs are most people putting on 15 day a year DE cars? JRZ RS or RS Pros or something else?

3.) And I know forums are a hard place to get performance rankings, but if you had for force rank Motons, JRZs and KWV3s would you do it in that order?

Thanks

 

Motons top my list but they are very expensive and you do have to find a place to mount the reservoirs. The fronts can go in the trunk. The rears look good mounted on a roll bar (opps one more high dollar item). The KW 3 or club sports come in second. I have heard mixed reactions to the JRZ.

 

Moton's WERE first IMO. Until they got bought out by AST. The main guys that ran Moton have started a new company (Motion Control Suspension or MCS) which will have products available soon.

AST encountered a problem with Moton having been behind on parts when they acquired them so the support and repair seems to be a bit behind. They are also updating a lot of the parts so buying them off the shelf from somewhere could leave you with an outdated product.

For right now, I'd go with JRZ, Moton then KW (until MCS arrives). Don't sleep on Ohlins either, they are top notch and from what I hear have handed some beat downs to Motons in some Porsche series. I know some people that have had issue with Moton's as well. Don't drink all the kool-aid. Many times vendors will sell you what they have the best deals on or relationship with the manufacturer and bash the other stuff.

The best route is to spend time at the track talking to people around you. But they will likely mimmick what we are saying.

 

I bought a set of lightly used Moton Clubsports for half price and have been very happy with them. There is a learning curve to the multiple adjustables. The most important thing to research when upgrading dampers is picking the right spring set for the kind of driving you will be doing. That's why PSS10 are good for the street but not good for the track, too lightly sprung. It's especially important on a dual purpose car because too stiff springs make city driving terrible.

 

Agreed Landjet,

And starting that research here, what spring rates did you put in your car and why?

My car is a 15 day a year DE car, with light around town driving on weekends. I was thinking 700/900, which I think is pretty stiff and would not be good if a bumpy street ride was going to bother me a lot.

Also, trying to understand all of this, do tender springs help around town with lower speed bump driving?

 

Tender springs are fully compressed when installed. Their main purposes is to maintain contact with the spring perches at full drop allowing more travel in the shock and still achieving a lowered ride height.

 

Sounds advice.... Motons and solid components totally transformed the car... Set up right, it is STUPID FAST around the track, and just so usable at it's limits all the way around ...

 

My Motons came with a 450/700 spring set from a Sharkwerks company car and I just used them as a combination street/ track set up. I've been happy with them. 700/900 would be good on track but will definitely be harsh on city steets. Even the 450/700's are harsh on bad roads.

 

I am still looking for a lightly used/rebuilt set of Moton CS or JRZ RS Pros, and in the void of finding any (willing to wait another month or two), I am starting to consider new. I am most curious about people's thoughts on New Motons vs New JRZs vs Motion Control Suspension.

I have in the past purchased new better products from new companies only to have them go out of business and leave me stranded with an unsupported product. This history has me worried a bit about both Moton (are they/will they continue to be well supported?) and MCS (will they make it/become a real player and support their products?).

Since I am relatively new the the Suspension marketplace, I'd appreciate any thoughts on the above.

Anyone have some track days with MCS and a basis for comparison to anything else?

 

I have the RSS parts in my car. It is on the lift now half apart. I see you are in NY and If you want to see what these items look like I can PM you my address and you can stop by and have a look see

 

Buying used is always a big guess. If i had to buy new, i would be torn between Moton and MCS. I beleive that just with MCS owners reputation, i would probably go with them because you will have less problem with warranty or to fix problems you might have.

Not having anyone in the US for Moton to service kind of bugs me, even though i just bought a set of used Moton. I just received mine and it seems to leak, freshly rebuilt. I just read that Moton had a lot of problems with leaky shocks so i hope i won't have too much trouble with those.

If i was to buy new and be on a thight budget like i am, i would probably go with KW but i would change the springs right away because they have a very weird spring rate on them.