800 hp on K16 Billets?
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Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
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Why are you so angry?
If you would answer some of my questions I had for you regarding what dyno you went to, trap speeds of your car, weight of your car, etc. then maybe we could get somewhere. You gave no information at all.
You just seem to be hell bent on attacking us and saying we're liars.
1. You're saying we're manipulating and deceiving everyone because we're rating crank HP based on a 15% loss. Then the whole car industry is a sham, because that is the average what people use for a manual gearbox car, and it's roughly what we've seen on the dyno on stock cars comparing rated HP to whp. Is it always 15%? no, sometime it can be 10%, sometimes more depending many things, what tires are on the car, the fluid used in the drivetrain, etc.
2. Manipulation? We say capable of 800hp. if we meant wheel horsepower we would write 800 wheel horsepower. How are we manipulating or deceiving. So our products should be rated at what an average person using who knows what components and tuning combination? That would be insane. That's like a speaker company having speakers capable of handling 1000watts RMS max power but only advertising 750 watts because most people won't have amps strong enough to drive them. You see my point?
Almost all our products are rated at crank horsepower, just like most other companies do and how OEM's rate their stuff. When we do testing and show dyno results showing whp gains, we clearly state that. If you have proof of deceit please show me. Watch TV, car manufactures showing cars jumping, doing ridiculous stunts that are faked, food advertised that looks like nothing even close to what you get when you actually order, etc. THAT is fake and technically manipulating advertising.
Here let me show you.
http://www.911tuning.com/996-Turbo/F...rade-p-52.html
850 crank horsepower capable with 635 cc/min injectors is the claim. Using a 15% drivetrain loss which you claim is outlandish, that comes out to 722whp on these injectors, or much more whp if you say the drivetrain loss is less. Go ahead, try to make 722whp or more on 635cc/min injectors, let's see how that works out. To give you an idea a stock GTR has 560cc/min injectors and they max out at 550whp on our dyno.
You seem to be the champion of 911 tuning and how happy you are with them and insist I'm being manipulative and deceitful. I'm curious if you will respond about this fuel system claim.
3. I don't know what A28's you are referring to. The GT28 based turbo's we are using are capable of more than 900hp. So let me ask you this, what are A28's good for crank HP? Let's first nail that down. Next, I'll buy you a first class plane ticket to Chicago, Pay you for your time off work, put you up in nice hotel, buy you dinner with limo service, and give you $10,000 cash if I cant' make that on our Alpha 9 997.1tt A28 based turbo setup on our car. You can look all over the car as much as you want and be there the entire time for the dyno process etc. If you're so confident in your beliefs then please take me up on my offer, it would be silly for you not to, downright stupid. In fact can everyone here including you, agree that if you don't take me on this offer everything you are saying and doing here is libel on your part?
As far as the Jap tuner vs German tuner. Really? You think Borg Warner and Garrett/Honeywell have turbo engineers that only deal with 'Jap' cars, and they have other engineers that are only experts with 'German' car applications. If you understand the concept of engine performance and how all the components work together it doesn't matter if you're working with a Model T ford or Bugatti Veyron.
Again my offer stands, please accept it.
-Martin
If you would answer some of my questions I had for you regarding what dyno you went to, trap speeds of your car, weight of your car, etc. then maybe we could get somewhere. You gave no information at all.
You just seem to be hell bent on attacking us and saying we're liars.
1. You're saying we're manipulating and deceiving everyone because we're rating crank HP based on a 15% loss. Then the whole car industry is a sham, because that is the average what people use for a manual gearbox car, and it's roughly what we've seen on the dyno on stock cars comparing rated HP to whp. Is it always 15%? no, sometime it can be 10%, sometimes more depending many things, what tires are on the car, the fluid used in the drivetrain, etc.
2. Manipulation? We say capable of 800hp. if we meant wheel horsepower we would write 800 wheel horsepower. How are we manipulating or deceiving. So our products should be rated at what an average person using who knows what components and tuning combination? That would be insane. That's like a speaker company having speakers capable of handling 1000watts RMS max power but only advertising 750 watts because most people won't have amps strong enough to drive them. You see my point?
Almost all our products are rated at crank horsepower, just like most other companies do and how OEM's rate their stuff. When we do testing and show dyno results showing whp gains, we clearly state that. If you have proof of deceit please show me. Watch TV, car manufactures showing cars jumping, doing ridiculous stunts that are faked, food advertised that looks like nothing even close to what you get when you actually order, etc. THAT is fake and technically manipulating advertising.
Here let me show you.
http://www.911tuning.com/996-Turbo/F...rade-p-52.html
850 crank horsepower capable with 635 cc/min injectors is the claim. Using a 15% drivetrain loss which you claim is outlandish, that comes out to 722whp on these injectors, or much more whp if you say the drivetrain loss is less. Go ahead, try to make 722whp or more on 635cc/min injectors, let's see how that works out. To give you an idea a stock GTR has 560cc/min injectors and they max out at 550whp on our dyno.
You seem to be the champion of 911 tuning and how happy you are with them and insist I'm being manipulative and deceitful. I'm curious if you will respond about this fuel system claim.
3. I don't know what A28's you are referring to. The GT28 based turbo's we are using are capable of more than 900hp. So let me ask you this, what are A28's good for crank HP? Let's first nail that down. Next, I'll buy you a first class plane ticket to Chicago, Pay you for your time off work, put you up in nice hotel, buy you dinner with limo service, and give you $10,000 cash if I cant' make that on our Alpha 9 997.1tt A28 based turbo setup on our car. You can look all over the car as much as you want and be there the entire time for the dyno process etc. If you're so confident in your beliefs then please take me up on my offer, it would be silly for you not to, downright stupid. In fact can everyone here including you, agree that if you don't take me on this offer everything you are saying and doing here is libel on your part?
As far as the Jap tuner vs German tuner. Really? You think Borg Warner and Garrett/Honeywell have turbo engineers that only deal with 'Jap' cars, and they have other engineers that are only experts with 'German' car applications. If you understand the concept of engine performance and how all the components work together it doesn't matter if you're working with a Model T ford or Bugatti Veyron.
Again my offer stands, please accept it.
-Martin
I'm not answering any of your questions.
You are the one with the dubious horsepower claims. You and your cohorts are
fairly adept at working internet forums. I'm not interested in semantics and
I'm not interested in long winded explanations to justify an otherwise
indefensible position regarding your horsepower claims.
I will, however, give you some advice. Before you venture into a segment of
marketing that you are not completely competent in, do enough homework
about the product to make sure that your claims are at least possible lol.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 990
From: Bucharest, Romania
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I have the 3" catless exhaust from markski and it works great for me, no drones, racing sound and not very loud and my logs look very good at over 800hp almost 1.7 bar with big gt30s(no k16 core) and every supporting mod...
I am considering straight pipes too at some point just for fun and then switch back to x style exhaust
I am considering straight pipes too at some point just for fun and then switch back to x style exhaust
Thread Starter
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Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
There are two times you'll hear from AMS on these forums:
1. When they have a new horsepower package with claims of physically impossible
horsepower numbers.
2. When you call B.S. on the physically impossible horsepower numbers.
Otherwise, how many time do you see these guys posting and being of service
to people?
And I think I speak for most members when I say: We don't mind a little salesmanship.
We don't mind having our chain yanked a little. We are mostly big boys here and we
can decide for ourselves but DON'T INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE. No one like that.
1. When they have a new horsepower package with claims of physically impossible
horsepower numbers.
2. When you call B.S. on the physically impossible horsepower numbers.
Otherwise, how many time do you see these guys posting and being of service
to people?
And I think I speak for most members when I say: We don't mind a little salesmanship.
We don't mind having our chain yanked a little. We are mostly big boys here and we
can decide for ourselves but DON'T INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE. No one like that.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
I have the 3" catless exhaust from markski and it works great for me, no drones, racing sound and not very loud and my logs look very good at over 800hp almost 1.7 bar with big gt30s(no k16 core) and every supporting mod...
I am considering straight pipes too at some point just for fun and then switch back to x style exhaust
I am considering straight pipes too at some point just for fun and then switch back to x style exhaust
he doesn't make a dime. And if you have a problem with any of his
products he'll help you fix it or he'll refund the money.
Find me one post where AMS is doing something other than ******* the
other vendors or trying to peddle their latest ALPHA SUPRA MEGA
package.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 679
From: UK
Rep Power: 53
Just to prove a point a quick google search and even Suzuki themselves claim a 20hp loss on a BIKE
The 2008 Hayabusa puts out 194 horse power at the crankshaft, 160 horse power at the rear wheel. The 2009 model should put out similar numbers. See the article at the link below. Look about 1/3 the way down the page.
The 2000 model put out 175 horse power at the crank shaft according to the article in the second link, 4th paragraph. This article did not list the rear wheel horse power. If you use the 18% horse power difference between the rear wheel and crankshaft with the 2008 model, I estimate the 2000 model Hayabusa put out about 144 horse power at the rear wheel.
So according to these two articles, the 2008 model puts out about 16 more horse power at the rear wheel over the 2000 model. The numbers should be similar with the 2009 model.
Source:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/s...
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/holybusa...
You can do searches to your hearts content and the general concensus is around 15% so how you are only getting like a 3% loss from crank to wheels is a mystery.
Also I know of no one in the industry who quotes WHP its always crank UNLESS they specifically state WHP, the guy at AMS has issued a challenge to prove his claims but thats now been ignored, noyt taking sides but it does seem like a kangaroo court here and the one thing that does add up is his point of 60-130 times for other cars like the 997 GT2 compared to the time set by Layingback, now I cant see Porsche leaving themselves open to a law suit by greatly over exagerating HP (performance times maybe) there must be great difference in HP between a 8 sec and 5.8 60-130 so how do we explain that?
The 2008 Hayabusa puts out 194 horse power at the crankshaft, 160 horse power at the rear wheel. The 2009 model should put out similar numbers. See the article at the link below. Look about 1/3 the way down the page.
The 2000 model put out 175 horse power at the crank shaft according to the article in the second link, 4th paragraph. This article did not list the rear wheel horse power. If you use the 18% horse power difference between the rear wheel and crankshaft with the 2008 model, I estimate the 2000 model Hayabusa put out about 144 horse power at the rear wheel.
So according to these two articles, the 2008 model puts out about 16 more horse power at the rear wheel over the 2000 model. The numbers should be similar with the 2009 model.
Source:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/s...
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/holybusa...
You can do searches to your hearts content and the general concensus is around 15% so how you are only getting like a 3% loss from crank to wheels is a mystery.
Also I know of no one in the industry who quotes WHP its always crank UNLESS they specifically state WHP, the guy at AMS has issued a challenge to prove his claims but thats now been ignored, noyt taking sides but it does seem like a kangaroo court here and the one thing that does add up is his point of 60-130 times for other cars like the 997 GT2 compared to the time set by Layingback, now I cant see Porsche leaving themselves open to a law suit by greatly over exagerating HP (performance times maybe) there must be great difference in HP between a 8 sec and 5.8 60-130 so how do we explain that?
Last edited by johnny.dangerous; Jan 17, 2014 at 02:18 AM.
Thread Starter
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Registered User
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,215
From: Birmingham, Al
Rep Power: 118
Just to prove a point a quick google search and even Suzuki themselves claim a 20hp loss on a BIKE
The 2008 Hayabusa puts out 194 horse power at the crankshaft, 160 horse power at the rear wheel. The 2009 model should put out similar numbers. See the article at the link below. Look about 1/3 the way down the page.
The 2000 model put out 175 horse power at the crank shaft according to the article in the second link, 4th paragraph. This article did not list the rear wheel horse power. If you use the 18% horse power difference between the rear wheel and crankshaft with the 2008 model, I estimate the 2000 model Hayabusa put out about 144 horse power at the rear wheel.
So according to these two articles, the 2008 model puts out about 16 more horse power at the rear wheel over the 2000 model. The numbers should be similar with the 2009 model.
Source:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/s...
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/holybusa...
The 2008 Hayabusa puts out 194 horse power at the crankshaft, 160 horse power at the rear wheel. The 2009 model should put out similar numbers. See the article at the link below. Look about 1/3 the way down the page.
The 2000 model put out 175 horse power at the crank shaft according to the article in the second link, 4th paragraph. This article did not list the rear wheel horse power. If you use the 18% horse power difference between the rear wheel and crankshaft with the 2008 model, I estimate the 2000 model Hayabusa put out about 144 horse power at the rear wheel.
So according to these two articles, the 2008 model puts out about 16 more horse power at the rear wheel over the 2000 model. The numbers should be similar with the 2009 model.
Source:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/s...
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/holybusa...
three of my builds on 3 different dynos. 2 of which are dynojets
and the other is a mustang. The dynojets are within 10 hp and the
mustang is always around 15 hp lower than the dynojets.
One of the fellows has a dyno day ever so often and plenty Porsche
club members attend. The stock 996 turbos are all between 360-370
according to the owner. Of course this equates to around 12-13%
We all know that chassis dynos aren't anything like an exact science
but rather, they're a good reference point.
btw, that's rear wheel numbers.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 650
From: Philadelphia, PA
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DEFINITION: Shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage
Manipulation is not confined to machinery. e.g marketing results that are highly
dubious, and by your own admission, not very duplicatable or realistic. You
advertise the k16 billets in bold caps 800 HP. You do not overtly delineate crank
vs. wheel and you do this in a market that dominated by wheel horsepower.
Manipulation is not confined to machinery. e.g marketing results that are highly
dubious, and by your own admission, not very duplicatable or realistic. You
advertise the k16 billets in bold caps 800 HP. You do not overtly delineate crank
vs. wheel and you do this in a market that dominated by wheel horsepower.
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...-Upgrades.html
If you read the description section, it's very clear what owners should expect HP wise for various setups, fuels, etc. and when they're not stating WHP it's obvious that "hp" is crank or brake hp, which is certainly just an educated guess. And the images section shares the dynojet dyno runs with WHP.
Basically, AMS suggests (and advertises) these turbos make 550 WHP on pump, 600 WHP on race gas, and are capable of 670 WHP with extensive supporting mods, race gas, and a ton of boost. I would say the earlier numbers are what you call "real world" and the 670 figure is a hero number someone might turn up the wick to for a dyno day or track day, but probably isn't going to run at that level much (if ever).
Last edited by c32AMG-DTM; Jan 17, 2014 at 06:30 AM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 512
From: West Chicago, IL
Rep Power: 0
You find both figures on my chart. The dyno has measured both. This is no guess.
The car is breaking the heavy roll of dyno, so there also is friction in play. I understand what you would like to say with the friction argument, but given that the measured drivetrain loss of my car was only 20 HP while breaking the drum of the dyno, let's me think that the plain guessed figure of 15% without any backup or validation is too high.
Power to the wheel is what counts and your 680ish is already very high for this turbo. 1.7 bar and this small turbo is a stretch in my book. IATs and timing would be interesting to see.
Andreas
The car is breaking the heavy roll of dyno, so there also is friction in play. I understand what you would like to say with the friction argument, but given that the measured drivetrain loss of my car was only 20 HP while breaking the drum of the dyno, let's me think that the plain guessed figure of 15% without any backup or validation is too high.
Power to the wheel is what counts and your 680ish is already very high for this turbo. 1.7 bar and this small turbo is a stretch in my book. IATs and timing would be interesting to see.
Andreas
Ahh I think I understand what you're saying now. You did a parasitic coast down measurement and there is a 20hp loss. That only takes the parasitic coast down drag effects into affect and measures how much HP it consumed by drag on components. Mechanical efficiency and power loss is totally different, and that is added on top of what you have measured there.
Here is an example of gear efficiency and how it's calculated.
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl...fficiency.html
Power loss through gears is directly related to how much power input power you have. If you put in 100hp and you have 5% loss on one gear, you will have 95hp output. When you are doing a cost down measurement you are not putting any power from the engine to the wheels, there is no efficiency loss being measured.
Regarding the HP on the K16.. K16 is just referring to the center cartridge, what wheels are inside make a huuuge difference. A garret GT25, GT28, GT30, and GT35R all use the same center bearing cartridge, yet all make wildly different power. I don't know what other vendors are using but what we use made that power. Yes it was maxed out at that point but that's what the max is for that turbo. I'm not sure what ignition timing has to do with turbo size, it's not relevant in this situation.
Would I recommend running this power level all the time? No, but you could push it that far if you wanted to. Bo Jackson is listed at running the 40 yard dash in 4.12 seconds as his best. Now does that mean every time he ran in the NFL or MLB he was running 4.12? and if he didn't that means his stat is null and void and he was lying?
Best regard,
Martin
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 512
From: West Chicago, IL
Rep Power: 0
I'm not answering any of your questions.
You are the one with the dubious horsepower claims. You and your cohorts are
fairly adept at working internet forums. I'm not interested in semantics and
I'm not interested in long winded explanations to justify an otherwise
indefensible position regarding your horsepower claims.
I will, however, give you some advice. Before you venture into a segment of
marketing that you are not completely competent in, do enough homework
about the product to make sure that your claims are at least possible lol.
You are the one with the dubious horsepower claims. You and your cohorts are
fairly adept at working internet forums. I'm not interested in semantics and
I'm not interested in long winded explanations to justify an otherwise
indefensible position regarding your horsepower claims.
I will, however, give you some advice. Before you venture into a segment of
marketing that you are not completely competent in, do enough homework
about the product to make sure that your claims are at least possible lol.
I'M OFFERING YOU A FULL PAID LUXURY VACATION TO CHICAGO AND $10,000 CASH so you can prove me wrong. You won't even reply to that. Who is being dubious?
That's the problem, you think doing your homework is reading on the internet what other people are doing and what armchair tuners/engineers are saying. Doing homework for me is actually building a car, building a product, datalogging, testing, improving, and then getting results at the track. Clearly the fact that over time we've build the highest HP EVO's, Held drag records and road racing records with that platform. Then moved on to GTR's and did the same. Oh wait.. and this
Oh and this...
Oh and this too...
wait there is more!!
As you can see we've done our homework, and actually for a while now, we've been teaching the class...
So you can't miss the offer and everyone can see that your claims are slander against our company, here it is again.
I'M OFFERING YOU A FULL PAID LUXURY VACATION TO CHICAGO AND $10,000 CASH so you can prove me wrong.
-Martin
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 512
From: West Chicago, IL
Rep Power: 0
There are two times you'll hear from AMS on these forums:
1. When they have a new horsepower package with claims of physically impossible
horsepower numbers.
2. When you call B.S. on the physically impossible horsepower numbers.
Otherwise, how many time do you see these guys posting and being of service
to people?
And I think I speak for most members when I say: We don't mind a little salesmanship.
We don't mind having our chain yanked a little. We are mostly big boys here and we
can decide for ourselves but DON'T INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE. No one like that.
1. When they have a new horsepower package with claims of physically impossible
horsepower numbers.
2. When you call B.S. on the physically impossible horsepower numbers.
Otherwise, how many time do you see these guys posting and being of service
to people?
And I think I speak for most members when I say: We don't mind a little salesmanship.
We don't mind having our chain yanked a little. We are mostly big boys here and we
can decide for ourselves but DON'T INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE. No one like that.
Let's see some of my posts...
1. Intake testing and showing the community dyno results of why you should keep your stock airbox on a 997. There was nothing to be gained from an intake system on that car even at 800whp level. Does that sound like we're trying to sell something?
2. Header test. This was on our 996 a while ago, we designed and built headers that made no power gains on our car with out billet K16's. We stated that we were not going to make or sell headers for that power level because no gains... Again what are we trying to sell here. We're just educating the community.
Please reply to this...
I'M OFFERING YOU A FULL PAID LUXURY VACATION TO CHICAGO AND $10,000 CASH so you can prove me wrong.
-Martin
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 465
From: north est
Rep Power: 61
Let's see some of my posts...
1. Intake testing and showing the community dyno results of why you should keep your stock airbox on a 997. There was nothing to be gained from an intake system on that car even at 800whp level. Does that sound like we're trying to sell something?
2. Header test. This was on our 996 a while ago, we designed and built headers that made no power gains on our car with out billet K16's. We stated that we were not going to make or sell headers for that power level because no gains... Again what are we trying to sell here. We're just educating the community.
Please reply to this...
I'M OFFERING YOU A FULL PAID LUXURY VACATION TO CHICAGO AND $10,000 CASH so you can prove me wrong.
-Martin
1. Intake testing and showing the community dyno results of why you should keep your stock airbox on a 997. There was nothing to be gained from an intake system on that car even at 800whp level. Does that sound like we're trying to sell something?
2. Header test. This was on our 996 a while ago, we designed and built headers that made no power gains on our car with out billet K16's. We stated that we were not going to make or sell headers for that power level because no gains... Again what are we trying to sell here. We're just educating the community.
Please reply to this...
I'M OFFERING YOU A FULL PAID LUXURY VACATION TO CHICAGO AND $10,000 CASH so you can prove me wrong.
-Martin
Martin can you prove that k16 billet make 800hp? i have to see this....
Mark, Markskis exhaust is kick ***. I had it on my a28 setup. It is
fantastic quality and it sounds great.
On the setup that I have now I wouldn't use it. When you get to the
crazy horsepower level you wanna go straight pipes.
But for 99% of sane people with a Porsche, it is a world class exhaust
system and a real bargain for the money!
fantastic quality and it sounds great.
On the setup that I have now I wouldn't use it. When you get to the
crazy horsepower level you wanna go straight pipes.
But for 99% of sane people with a Porsche, it is a world class exhaust
system and a real bargain for the money!
Do I think 670whp on K16 hybrids is a stretch - SURE. But I have seen stuff they build and I have raced their cars Alpha 9 GTR and Alpha 10+ GTR. I have also seen a car with Markski kit and yeah I have seen DSMs with nicer charge piping than that.
__________________
#TeamAIM
997TT SilverSpool - 210.8 mph 1/2 Mile WR Apr 2019, 9.2 @ 168 mph 1/4 Mile Manual World Record , 3.15 60-130 mph , 2.72 100-150 mph , 1400whp E85
996TT SpoolBus - 204.6 mph 1/2 Mile 996TT WR Aug 2018, 9.5 @ 154 mph, 3.23 60-130 mph, 2.5 100-150 mph Manual Porsche World Record, 1400whp E85
997TT SlowBerry - 205.0 mph 1/2 Mile WR Nov 2018, 9.7 @ 170 mph 1/4 Mile , 3.2 60-130 mph , 2.4 100-150 mph , 1420whp E85
ESMOTOR | DO88 | TPC DSC | SYVECS | COBB | IPD | KLINE | XONA | AMS | ID | ERP | SACHS | TURBOSMART | CSF | DODSON |
#TeamAIM
997TT SilverSpool - 210.8 mph 1/2 Mile WR Apr 2019, 9.2 @ 168 mph 1/4 Mile Manual World Record , 3.15 60-130 mph , 2.72 100-150 mph , 1400whp E85
996TT SpoolBus - 204.6 mph 1/2 Mile 996TT WR Aug 2018, 9.5 @ 154 mph, 3.23 60-130 mph, 2.5 100-150 mph Manual Porsche World Record, 1400whp E85
997TT SlowBerry - 205.0 mph 1/2 Mile WR Nov 2018, 9.7 @ 170 mph 1/4 Mile , 3.2 60-130 mph , 2.4 100-150 mph , 1420whp E85
ESMOTOR | DO88 | TPC DSC | SYVECS | COBB | IPD | KLINE | XONA | AMS | ID | ERP | SACHS | TURBOSMART | CSF | DODSON |
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 122
From: Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 27
It's funny, but I think I've learned more about tuning in this slug fest than in any other forum.
Personally, I don't know where the AMS hate is coming from. Outside of 6speed I have never heard anything negative about them. They may not be terribly active on the forums with the exception of defending their product from people who (at least it seems) have no experience with them, I could be totally off base. Personally, I really don't think people should throw accusations around without some form of experience / fact based information to support the claim. Positive or negative.
Markski, is a great community guy and no doubt that has and should have garnered him a lot of support. Undoubtedly people will be comfortable with his product line because of the relationship built in that way. Good on him, mad respect for the free tech support marketing approach.
It's a shame that this has become a political debate on based on hearsay and conjecture on a forum where I love reading the community support threads.
I would love to see the respective tuners have a build off with their respective parts and methods. Then bring the cars to an third party independent and agreed to shop for pulls to see how they really compare.
I doubt anyone would be willing to take up that sort of a challenge for fear of losing, which is a shame because otherwise... We're stuck with mud slinging, hearsay, opinion and conjecture. Which means no matter how many pages this thread hits we'll have accomplished nothing but putting people on the defensive. And by people, in this case I mean AMS because it has been a community against against a company trying to protect their brand.
Personally, I don't know where the AMS hate is coming from. Outside of 6speed I have never heard anything negative about them. They may not be terribly active on the forums with the exception of defending their product from people who (at least it seems) have no experience with them, I could be totally off base. Personally, I really don't think people should throw accusations around without some form of experience / fact based information to support the claim. Positive or negative.
Markski, is a great community guy and no doubt that has and should have garnered him a lot of support. Undoubtedly people will be comfortable with his product line because of the relationship built in that way. Good on him, mad respect for the free tech support marketing approach.
It's a shame that this has become a political debate on based on hearsay and conjecture on a forum where I love reading the community support threads.
I would love to see the respective tuners have a build off with their respective parts and methods. Then bring the cars to an third party independent and agreed to shop for pulls to see how they really compare.
I doubt anyone would be willing to take up that sort of a challenge for fear of losing, which is a shame because otherwise... We're stuck with mud slinging, hearsay, opinion and conjecture. Which means no matter how many pages this thread hits we'll have accomplished nothing but putting people on the defensive. And by people, in this case I mean AMS because it has been a community against against a company trying to protect their brand.
it might sound great and look nice but thats where its merits end. Calling it a world class exhaust is preposterous. the thing fell apart after few dyno pulls and it was shown this guy is using cheapy junk cats. come on now. his excuse is "oh i thought this car was only gonna make 600hp" lol. gotta use the uprated 75$ cats for that one lmao. AWE 2.5" didnt fall apart, my cargraphic 2.5" didnt fall aparts after 8 years of abuse even at 650whp plus. years ago markski tried to sell me his, saying how its gonna make all this power (30+) over mine and blah blah blah. I said sure BUT I am putting it on a dyno and if it doesnt make ( 1/2 of your claim) 15 more whp, I am taking it off putting in a box and shipping it back to you. His response, oh no I cant do that because I cant sell a used exhaust. Why ? Because it was never gonna make any power.
Now, as far as THAT particular exhaust in question- did you read the owners response? he orders a 600 HP exhaust with cats and 2.5". had I known it would go on a HIgh boosted car with A28s plus I would either recommend a HIGH boost cat( which I have as an option for more money) or would tell him catless. Furthermore, I did notice you were instrumental in spreading the news on all the boards as if you "GOT me".. My friend, I have nothing to prove to you... have you noticed that ONLY AMS was the one who actually blew my exhaust on the dyno yet I have countess of exhausts on the street... what do you make of that? yes I had 1 other cat fall apart 3 years ago.. only 1.... and I replaced it.. Now if you think AMS was a stand up company don't you think they would call me ( they are in Chicago you know) and say hey mark we have a small problem with the cats.. I would check it out and do whats right... either take them out or replace them.. things do happen you know.. this is normal.. Like engines blowing up lol yet some keep it hush hush... Yet you of all the people still are at it... I don't get you... I have our own exhaust on the 997 and it made 900whp... and its in tact.... what else do you want to know? and to stop the drama... I did not want to do this because I let it go ... but, I actually took that exhaust back gave the client his full refund even after the cat company said that un burnt race fuel and or running very rich blew the cats out( makes sense- they were probably testing their ANti lag lol) and I put it on my 997... and guess what... it made power... unlike some who slammed it that its worse then stock... oh yes and Randy did run on A28s a 60 to 130 world record... and guess what? it wasn't even a 3" exhaust... so please stop paraphrasing others (AMS)because had they been the pros they say they are they would take care of this professionally... yet they went along with Tony and had had a feast on twitter and FB along with your cross referencing... that is really poor judgement and those who know know... mind you, the owner who ordered the exhaust apologized... I find that ironic...
So to set the record straight, here is the same exact exhaust I took back on my car... with stock exhaust and with that same exhaust I took back both on a tune...
you tell what you see my friend... connect the dots... dont be such a hater because the stuff works and I take pride in what I do... you without Tim would be one lost kid just like when you were begging me to help you find boost leaks in your car sending me Iphone videos along with your error codes... yet all of a sudden you became the Porsche authority... so please stop the nonsense its time to put you back in your place.. because your negative approach towards everyone else stems back all the way from the Mboards... you are very well known... as randy says it' liars figure.. figures dont lie... enjoy your weekend...
markski
here.. you go.. dosnt make power? lol please...
93octane pull
100octane pull
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
Last edited by markski@markskituning; Jan 17, 2014 at 11:31 AM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 512
From: West Chicago, IL
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It's funny, but I think I've learned more about tuning in this slug fest than in any other forum.
Personally, I don't know where the AMS hate is coming from. Outside of 6speed I have never heard anything negative about them. They may not be terribly active on the forums with the exception of defending their product from people who (at least it seems) have no experience with them, I could be totally off base. Personally, I really don't think people should throw accusations around without some form of experience / fact based information to support the claim. Positive or negative.
Markski, is a great community guy and no doubt that has and should have garnered him a lot of support. Undoubtedly people will be comfortable with his product line because of the relationship built in that way. Good on him, mad respect for the free tech support marketing approach.
It's a shame that this has become a political debate on based on hearsay and conjecture on a forum where I love reading the community support threads.
I would love to see the respective tuners have a build off with their respective parts and methods. Then bring the cars to an third party independent and agreed to shop for pulls to see how they really compare.
I doubt anyone would be willing to take up that sort of a challenge for fear of losing, which is a shame because otherwise... We're stuck with mud slinging, hearsay, opinion and conjecture. Which means no matter how many pages this thread hits we'll have accomplished nothing but putting people on the defensive. And by people, in this case I mean AMS because it has been a community against against a company trying to protect their brand.
Personally, I don't know where the AMS hate is coming from. Outside of 6speed I have never heard anything negative about them. They may not be terribly active on the forums with the exception of defending their product from people who (at least it seems) have no experience with them, I could be totally off base. Personally, I really don't think people should throw accusations around without some form of experience / fact based information to support the claim. Positive or negative.
Markski, is a great community guy and no doubt that has and should have garnered him a lot of support. Undoubtedly people will be comfortable with his product line because of the relationship built in that way. Good on him, mad respect for the free tech support marketing approach.
It's a shame that this has become a political debate on based on hearsay and conjecture on a forum where I love reading the community support threads.
I would love to see the respective tuners have a build off with their respective parts and methods. Then bring the cars to an third party independent and agreed to shop for pulls to see how they really compare.
I doubt anyone would be willing to take up that sort of a challenge for fear of losing, which is a shame because otherwise... We're stuck with mud slinging, hearsay, opinion and conjecture. Which means no matter how many pages this thread hits we'll have accomplished nothing but putting people on the defensive. And by people, in this case I mean AMS because it has been a community against against a company trying to protect their brand.
While we have not done a Porsche vs Porsche competition we were involved in a shop competition of sorts sponsored by Castrol Motor oils.
http://amsperformance.com/builds/cas...shop-challenge
That is a link to the breakdown on our site but if you google "Castrol top shop challenge" you will find all kinds of cool articles.
We ended up beating out everyone by large margin in an engine only competition using an actual engine dyno.
Here is the video we did from that event:
We are always up for a challenge, as we stated before we are an extremely transparent company.