Zulu, you will see a healthy 850 crank.

I think Orbel's dyno was on "kill" with meth and included every trick from the many experienced guys involved. They/He put lots of time, effort and $ into that car! Truly a trophy pull.

 

Good point, I don't know that we can. MegioN seems to have had a high quality set of AM coolers before the AMS ones he is currently running. Not 997.2 coolers.

Here's the thread I was looking for:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...kit-video.html

 

Thanks Sam.

 

I'm amazed that the powers that be are allowing our critique of a paying sponsor.

I'm actually impressed and I'm developing a new found respect for the political

underbelly of this organization.

( famous last words and then ........layinback is BANNED)

Will I have to go to the black market to post my quarter mile times and 60-130 times?
How does the black market operate on 6 speed?

 

Think about it Mark....... if a pair of k16 will make 800 hp and an alpha 28
will make 900, what would 3071s make? My god, what would 3076s make?

And why have we been wasting our money and time on our setups?

 

Yes, and orbello would be the first person to admit it. He knows that his
a28 setup aint gonna do 850 whp on a daily basis.

We all want the glory pull to see what's possible but we know it isn't a real
world driving number.

 

i think i'll add torco in the tank this weekend. maybe that will give me 300 more hp?

shaking my head. 800 hp on any k16 turbo...

 

Guys, whats the big deal. This is easily accomplished, you just use 40% DTL lol.

 

Wow, a few of you are really upset.

I'm 100% with you on some of the parts that are out there for the Porsche market. It's why you don't see a lot of parts like intakes, headers, etc from us because we've prototyped them and saw that there was little or nothing to be gained. I can't make something and sell it knowing that it doesn't improve on the stock components. I will tell you there are parts available for the Porsche market that actually make less HP than stock!! I've tested it personally on our dyno.

I'm here to answer any questions and I can tell you that our operation is 100% transparent. If anyone wants to come down and look at our dyno, our 997tt, take a shop tour, etc feel free.

Regarding the billet K16's. I'm looking at 5 dyno pulls on SAE correction on our dynojet (I can post them if you wish) 677, 669,675,680,676 (all WHP). Now this was in 2wd mode, back then we had to run the 996 in 2WD so there will be a difference going to a 4wd (like we have now). Maybe another 2-4% loss. 800crank hp with a 15% loss is 680whp. We logged boost on the dyno and it shows 25 psi holding all the way to redline.

Our dyno cannot be manipulated, it's a dynojet inertia dyno. The only way dynojets are really off is if you do SAE correction on a turbo car at high altitude (like Denver, CO). The mathematical SAE correction does not translate correctly for turbocharged cars at altitude.

If you want to see dyno manipulation, check this out.


I made that video for the pure fact that people were comparing Mustang dyno numbers to each other, when in reality they are not relevant because they all differ from each other greatly and are manipulated by people.

I will say our billet K16's are made for us, meaning we worked with a billet wheel manufacturer and tested a few different combo's to see what worked best. 680whp was maxed out on our combination, it does not mean every person will make 680whp, not even close. It means if you optimize everything the same way that we did on our test vehicle, you can reach that level. Back then we didn't do any 60-130 testing and we only took it to the track once, it went 134 mph on roughly 650whp on our dyno. At the Texas mile it went 197mph again at roughly 650whp. Is that totally out of whack?

Layingback, I'm not sure what turbo's you have or what dyno's you were on , but tell us and maybe that will shed some light. Did you ever run that car at the quarter mile? If you take a 15% correction on your dyno#'s you’re only making 650 crank horsepower. You went 5.87 at 650 crank horsepower, I think you're short changing yourself and you're making more. Look at the 60-130 list of other cars. 997tt stock - 9.5 seconds, 997 Turbo S (530hp) 8.2 seconds, 997 GT2 RS (rated at 620hp) 7.1 seconds.


Our Alpha 9 997tt package made 850whp max on our dyno (in 4wd dyno mode). It's a full weight car (3590 lbs when we weighed it) and it went 9.9 at 144.3mph with me driving it (I weight 245 lbs).


It went 206mph in the standing mile at lower boost (about 800whp). If you want to talk about the 60-130 on that car compared to yours we can, let me know as I don't want to make my post any longer than it already is.

We're building the motor as we speak for that car (997tt) because we're going a little bigger on turbo's and don't want to push the stock motor any further. If anyone wants to stop by our shop and see the motor out and see that it's stock (and not broken), again come on down.

We don't use standard A28 turbos in our kit that everyone sells for the Porsche. The same A28's that are in our Porsche kit is in our GTR Alpha kit, and those cars have gone over 150mph in the quarter and can make 900whp on those cars. We have dyno sheet after dyno sheet and track slip after track slip to prove it from tons of cars. Can you really dispute those facts? The past two days we’ve had 4 different street GTR's go 8 second quarters in the Middle East, one knocking on the 7 second window. We have 18 different street GTR's in the 8 second club, and our personal test vehicle car went 7's. We don't do fluff, we produce results.

To prove this I will extend a personal discount to anyone wanting to do a 997tt Alpha package with us and you can go on here and post results, experience, etc. Please email sales@amsperformance.com or call us and we'll discuss details on the discount, it will be worth your while.

Sorry for being so long winded but when we started looking at this market we saw how much bull**** was being sold and how tough it was going to be to get our foot in the door, so we needed to be very thorough when developing products. I'm on your side and I'm willing to share info, educate, etc. I'm not a salesman, I'm an engineer, R&D is what I do best. We feel an educated customer with realistic expectations is much happier in the end.

Best regards,

Martin Musial

 

Thats fair play !!!!

 

Marksi,

What are you talking about? Blew cats out running high boost on race gas without owner even knowing? Why do you keep lying? I have nothing against you man, but I don't like the fact that you sold a customer an exhaust that is a poor design and has garbage cats in it.

How about this for the facts like I mentioned in a thread earlier when you brought this up and you had no rebuttal, because they were all facts.
Soooo... to set the facts straight again.

We were tuning the customers Alpha 9 package on PUMP GAS at 20psi. The customer was fully aware we were tuning on the dyno as that is the process of building the car and tuning a car on the dyno, duh. The cats took a crap maybe 5-6 pulls in. I don't know if you are trying to imply that we were joy riding his car Ferris Buellers Day Off style to make us look bad or what?
Highly built car.. it's got our Alpha 9 package..stock engine, turbo upgrade package, intercoolers, exhaust, tune. just clarifying here.
There was no smearing all over the internet..we just posted on 6speed the results and the fact, no FB twitter, etc .

So strange that only a 2.5" exhaust that is a decent design makes more power than the exhaust you sold him. You want to see the dyno results again?

Things that make you go hmmmm... $60 catalytic converters that belong in a gas station repair shop on a Porsche exhaust.

Things that make you go hmmm again.. louvered muffler design on a turbo application http://www.mikekemper.com/elantra/exhaust/resonator.jpg
If you want high backpressure and lower HP, sure go ahead and use them!

You can keep bringing this up and make yourself look bad, I would stop if I were you. If you think we're in the wrong then I'll do this all for free for you... bring your exhaust with cats (the same ones you sold the customer) to the shop. you can watch us put it on the 997, we'll put the car back on the dyno, then as you watch we'll put on another exhaust system and go back to the dyno. I'll pick the AWE as it's only 2.5" and roughly comparable in size to your's or you can suggest another. If your exhaust makes more power I will carry your exhaust product line and eat my words.

Martin

 

15% would mean a loss of 120 HP - not a very realistic number. I have yet to see losses over 25 HP on these cars on 2WD dynos and this would then in turn mean a more realisitc 700 HP on full kill with race gas. Try or die mode.

Andreas

 

You are saying you only see a 25 HP loss between running an engine on an engine dyno then strapping it in the car and running it on a chassis dyno? Both dynos calibrated the same way and same weather conditions?

 

You're comparing an engine dyno to a chassis dyno to get these numbers? We've dyno'd a lot of factory cars and you typically get 12-15% loss from advertised crank's to whp numbers on modern DCT or manual cars. Again this is on our dynojet inertia dyno. Automatics are a little higher loss.
I can give real examples of GTR's, Corvette Z06's, Mercedes, etc. Now some factory cars are underated also, so that you have to watch for. Some of these are done by the same manufacturer to create model separation on paper, but on the dyno tells a different story. Hey they have to charge you more $$ for something

Martin

 

from my experience and what i think about dyno brand:

dynapack: 3-6% (my tuner told me 25% trying to save his ***)
dynojet: 8-12%
mustang: 15-20%
dyno dynamics: 20-25%

with these 4 most common brand it's easy to play with number and fool people !