looks like i'll soon be converting to RWD as i've toasted the pinion bearings in my g'box. given i'm going to have it r&r'd, i figure it's time to fully and properly convert to rwd as the couple weeks of rwd without it have proven to me i prefer living on the edge talk about snap oversteer lol

but it only took a week of pushing the car in rwd in twisty's to cause the pinion and/or main shaft bearings to howl and whine

always thought i wanted to do this anyway, so i see this as my excuse/opportunity to do it right ( and once )

anyone have thoughts on the guard vs the wavetrac setup? i know the guard is, well pre-eminent in the world of lsd's.. and it's a guard! but have been hearing good things on the wavetrac and wondered if anyone has any real time experience with it/them. it is certainly much less expensive and if equally efficient for my setup and use, which is daily canyon carving only, then i'll consider the wavetrac setup! it's only like $1400 vs the 2k+? with guard. any advice/real world experience is helpful so TIA.

 

that is just one more question ahead of me on this learning curve. hoping someone can add info to this also.

have not considered carbonetics.

 

i had a wavetrac in my amy and loved it. it wasn't anywhere near the power these cars are capable of but it was warren tied up to 1000 hp and carries a lifetime warranty. i used unitrax in cali and was very pleased with it overall. actually looking at it for my 996 tt.

since it replaces the entire open diff i don't see were the guard or the wavetrac would but any more or less difficult to install. the process for shimming would be the same on either.

i thought the carbonetics would be a nice option but have seen 2 different members on here have issues so i wrote it off. prodigy destroyed his on a single launch with approx 900 hp. from the research i did on the wavetrac they haven't had a single failure since the company auto tech has started building them

 

good info, thx. doesn't unitrax just sell the giken lsd? they are local to me, will have to look into that one also.

 

can't say but thats who sold all of us the wavetrac. it was for a car that never had a led built so the forum did a group buy and auto tech built it and unitary sells it. they also did the install for me as i just shipped my diff to them. not so easy on the pcar but if your local they should be up to the task.

check both side bearings and the pinion bearing while its apart

 

def, will do thx. hoping i can get this all done locally! i can remove the trans myself ( with help ) just hoping not to have to ship it. what a pita. but if so, GT is my first choice. but man, they ain't gonna be cheap to r&r plus their lsd.

http://www.osgiken.net/products.php?...=34&submit.y=6

also have to consider the giken and the quaife lsd, and i think the torson type will best suit my needs. it has lock at decel, if not to the degree a plate type would

 

Giken will not hold big power as anyone i know that tried it has either blown it up or removed it,don't know much about wavetrac,Guard is the best.I don't believe quaife makes one for our trans but they make quality diffs.

 

thx for that. i'm not running "big" power, maybe 475-500 whp and looking to lose the weight with the rwd setup? but primarily concerned with keeping power down, since i haven't felt wheel spin like this since my 993 lol.

anyone advice on the difference(s) btw the torson type vs the plate type? eg the wavetrac is tbd vs guard lsd which is friction plates and could need rebuild though i can't imagine i'd ever burn thru it! as i'm reading it really depends on the primary driving conditions? eg i'm less concerned about hard braking ( plate type better ) vs the power down lock of the torsen type. and wavetrac "claims" there is in fact *some* lock under hard braking, though it couldn't be on par with the guard plate type. but i'm not tracking and this is needed primarily in fast tight corners, not long sweeps or tracking.

 

That definitely makes sense.

 

A Wavetrac is NOT an LSD. It is a TBD - Torque biasing differential. It has no clutches. Wavetrac just uses clever marketing by calling itself an LSD but it is not. It will still act like an open diff if one wheel comes off the ground and a TBD provides no benefit under braking. You will not see a single Porsche at the track with a Wavetrac. It is not even in the same league as a true LSD like Guard or PMNA. 90% of track rats and race teams use a Guard or a PMNA LSD and you'll see few of the much less popular Japanes Gikken diffs from time to time. The Gikkens have had numerous documented failures in Porsches and have never really caught on. Why Guard or PMNA? Because they are the real deal. I have over 50 hard track days on my Guard with zero issues. Don't cheap out here, go with a proven product....

 

Guard diff are NOT built from OE housings. OE housings are cast while Guard uses their own much stronger billet housings. I believe that PMNA housings are billet also.

 

according to the website the wavetrac does exactly what you say it doesn't.
http://wavetrac.net/technical.htm
the diff engages when a single wheel loses traction, engaging the other wheel.

as for the guard i don't think it was ever implied that the wavetrac was equal or better but simply cheaper and for a lower powered car it should work very well and with its warranty a great buy.
also true lsd like the guard are difficult and noisy on a street car and the wavetrac is uber quiet around town.
this is of course my opinion and experience from owning a wavetrac

 

dont know about Guard, but Wavetrack did magic to my car... one of the best mods and i did almost all of them! night and day from a dig, in 1st and 2nd gear even using R888 traction is improved a lot, better control in twisty roads too... i have a quaife on my bmw 335i ( about 500 hp crank ) and i feel wavetrack changed the 996 more than quaife did on the 335i, i have to admit the power level and delivery is also different as 996 turbos hit much much harder and maybe thats a good reason, anyway.. wavetrack does its job very well for me and i am a happy driver using it

 

Marketing is marketing. Best judge of the performance of a product is to go see what race teams or guys are using at the track. You will not find a single TBD or a Wavetrac there. Why? Because guys are using products that are proven to work day in day out under the harshest conditions. Porsche has never installed a TBD on any of their cars, only LSDs. Dont' get me wrong, I'm not saying the Wavetrac is bad. I'm sure it's a good product and huge improvement over the stock TT open diff. All I'm saying is that if it was as good as their advertising leads you to believe, you'd see it on GT3s, Cups, etc.

The price difference between a TBD and a true LSD is not that huge considering the costs of set up and install (my Guard was under $3K plus install if I recall correctly). PMNA diffs are pricier. If I was going to go to the trouble of installing something, I'd put in the best product I could afford. I always hate installing something only to look back later and wish I'd gone all the way. I'd get a product that provides true locking capability, gives you the benefit of locking under braking, also gives you the options to change the ramps if you wanted to alter the locking ratio, and is easy to rebuild. Just my $0.02.

Also, I have never had any noise with my Guard LSD. Occasionally you'll hear a slight clicking from the clutches when you are backing up and turning shortly but that's it.

 

uh oh. i have learned the difference from the torque biasing from the "true" lsd with plates. if the wavetrac truly locks as it says it does, then it ( again ) *might* suit my needs. i have no doubt the guards lsd is the better of the two "types" and recognize that readily.

i'm looking at a 3k ( min ) repair bill on the trans and the parts on top of that for the rwd conversion. believe me, i will do plenty more research before i simply pull the trigger on a part that is UNproven in our cars(?) still hearing some good stuff on the wavetrac! ) but the debate and info is greatly appreciated.

this is info re the differences about the types of diff, and that the tbd is in fact not a tru lsd, but indeed a torque bias differential

http://home.online.no/~krimp/sweb/ph..._slip_diff.htm

Quattro, Quaife, Torsen, Peloquin: (Torque Biasing Differentials)
Audi's Quattro and the popular aftermarket Quaife systems use a set of worm gears inside the differential in place of the spider gears, which bind up when there's a resistive torque imbalance. That means, as long as both sides show equal resistance then they are free to rotate at different speeds, such as when going around a turn.

The whole thing is called a "Torsen" system as in "Torque Sensing" (Torsen is actually a Quaife trademark, and the more generic term is Torque Biasing Differential or TBD) because it instantly reacts to torque imbalance transferring power to the wheels that can use it most. There's a difference between the two main torsen diffs. Quattro used something developed by Gleason called invex gearing which is is really all about worm gears. A torque imbalance causes it to *try* to turn the low traction output shaft faster than the higher traction side, but that would cause the invex spider gears to turn, and they drive worm gears which have a greater mechanical advantage (due to the angle of the teeth) than the output sun gears have on the worm gears. That means that a multiple of the torque that would have gone to the low traction side actually goes to the high traction side. So if 20 ft-lbs of traction is at the low traction side, something like 80 ft-lbs goes to the side that can actually use it. A ratio of 4 to 1 or 5 to 1 is common but changing the gear teeth angles changes the ratio. The Quaife uses helical gears to accomplish exactly the same thing, but the actual operation is not nearly as easy to understand. Somehow the helical gears float in pockets on the inside of the housing and apply radial and axial forces generated by the angle of the gear teeth. It can be tuned just like the invex gears to vary the torque ratio. Note however that without significant preload either torsen diff will not work well with a wheel completely off the ground. 0 ft-lbs time 4 is still 0. A simple braking trick helps though. (Note, the EDL system discussed above, actually works pretty well with a torsen diff. It activates rarely, but allows for much greater torque transfer when it does.) For this reason, they're rarely found on 4WD vehicles, the notable exception being the original Hummer, which has a note in the owner's manual explaining how to use the brakes and gas at the same time, should one or more tires be off the ground.

It is capable of going from an open differential to say 60% locked differential condition absolutely instantly (zero lag), so many would argue that it's about as close to perfect as it gets for performance driving. There are no clutches to wear out. Several AWD systems like the Quattro system put a torsen diff in the center of the car to control slip between front and rear wheels. This system does not have the problem the VC does with the ABS. A torsen diff only distributes torque when it's under load. When it's freewheeling all the wheels can turn at different speeds as the ABS may desire.
(Note: It looks like the current Audi Quattro system only uses the torsen diff in the center, and some other LSD or EDL at the axles. )


the key to all of this will be to figure out if this: http://wavetrac.net/technical.htm

is true,.. or not!