In the quest for more power I am contemplating upgrading from stock K16 turbos to K16 billets or just standard K24s combined with my current free flow exhaust and EVO intercoolers.

My goal is to have a powerband and curve similar to a 997 GT2 or GT2 RS - so in the range of 530hp to 620hp at the crank with tons of area under the curve and a strong pull to redline on pump gas. Will K24s get me there or do I need an aftermarket solution?

Who is considered the best tuner to work with for a K24 or K16 billet tune that works well for road course and time trial driving? By this I mean a safe tune that won't knock when the car is heat soaked and a tune with a linear power delivery, not a huge wallop of torque as the turbos spool. Maybe said tuner could also supply high quality K16 billet exchange turbos and a FPR or injectors to complete the package. EPL, AMS and 911tuning are the most commonly mentioned companies but they seem focused on tuning for 1/4 mile and 60-130 numbers. UMW has a good reputation with some track guys but I think their upgraded ZC turbos are a lot more expensive than K16 billets for a similar outcome.

Lastly will my fresh OE clutch hold with the K16 billet torque or is and upgraded PP absolutely required. Note that I will not be drag racing the car.

 

it would if you had a gt2 disc and dont slip it.. ever.

the post read like an advert for those mentioned tuners lol. but me, i'd call sambo/kevin and markski ( he's still got that deal on billets/tune, no?? ) or tim in no particular order. depends on who your buds with? and they all can get you there. gl sounds like a fun upgrade.

 

I didn't know the 996 GT2 disc was different? My clutch is fresh but with 100% stock 996TT parts.

Advert Nope and I have never spent a cent with any of the names mentioned which is why I am looking for some 6speed wisdom! I haven't found any really bad press on any of the major tuners on this side of the pond but some of them must be more seasoned when it comes to building a car for road course use vs freeway pulls.

Who are Sambo/Kevin and Tim? Private guys or do they work for a company?

 

oem clutch won't last with billets. give todd at protomotive a call. been doing this longer than most with great results. not cheap but very good with factory dme

 

it wasn't meant as a criticism, sorry if thats how it came off. sambo is sam at by design auto. kevin is umw. markski is 911 tuning in here.. and tim is ( far as i know.. ) tim. all here and helpful and reputable tuner/tech/parts/builder guys. or take 32's advice and go with protomotive, although for something as simple as a tune for/and 16 billets, i dare say you could do a bit better money wise with the others i mentioned. as good as protomotive is, ( and their rep is beyond reproach ) they have overhead and i think it gets built into any parts/ or work done, as one would expect it would. i have to qualify that i have never used them and found my one email reply from todd there incredibly helpful, so you could never go wrong there. ESPECIALLY if you'd consider their mafless setup/tune. thats THE way to go in my estimation. i decided i don't need it.

the sachs oem gt2 disc is one step up from the 96t in terms of durability/material,.. as i understand it and would handle the billet 16's as i've been told.

 

Your clutch will not last for long if you put those billet's on with the torque they make. Might as well put that in the budget.

I'm going through this same thing myself right now after one of my K24's bit the dust on my track only 996 TT. There are many turbo's that will make the power, you just have to know which curve you want for your driving style. I personally like a more NA driving style, lag isn't much of an issue if you keep your revs up.

I'm going with the Mitsu wheel K16 now and see how I like them. Working with SamboTT who's helped me understand the differences in all of the turbos and how to get what I'm looking for by wastegate tuning.

Take your time, do your homework, look at dyno graphs and compare them to what you have now and think about what areas you like and what you would like to improve on.

I just got my turbo's on today and will have an on track verdict with data in the next 3 weeks. We don't have any conclusive data as far as track is concerned so it's still a bit trial and error.

 

i defer to heavy's expertise ( not for nothin, notice he's working with sam?? ) but unless the 16 billets are making more than i dunno.. 525 to the wheels? i could make do with a stock oem clutch provided it was new and coupled with a gt2 disc

but he is probably right. you should go sachs 2.5 kit with the 964 plate yada yada lol

 

Tony/EPL has been very good to me dialing in a 'track' tune(ability to pound on it allday in hot weather on pump, with good ability to modulate power)...from what I understand he's tuned many of the One Lap of America winners...very fast and very consistent, not dyno queen numbers...

 

We're lucky to have many great tuners with a depth of talent here to chose from, my experience is with UMW stage 2A, which the power is 100% usable on a road course has a real N/A feel powering out of turns and they have been on the car for 50K of Track and DD with out one problem.

 

crffl, I am a big road coarse guy. I have some great turbocharger options and work with most all tuners. Would love to offer my .02 and help out with options and questions.

Feel free to contact me anytime!

 

Generally speaking... billet k16's are not my first choice for a car that will be tracked often. In many cases even just an old tried and true set of k24's or k24/18g's (or k24/billets even) work out better. Im basing this MAINLY on novice drivers (lets face it, even if you drive on track 10 time a season... your still a novice) and power modulation... which k24's are much better at then a SUPER snappy k16/billet.

We have track specific files that many of out customer what drive on tack often opt for and love!

 

So you're saying K24s are sort of like restrictors and make driving easier for novices as they never get into boost?
Personally I find it much easier to drive a car that goes when I nail it vs. trying to time getting on the throttle in the middle of a corner so that the boost actually builds when I need it - and not when I'm entering the braking zone for the next corner.

 

Its a matter of being able to modulate throttle and control boost with your right foot. This is FAR more easily done on a larger framed turbo.... Some people enjoy "point and shoot" style of driving, but the people that are looking to advance, lower lap times and get faster generally want as much control as possible... For this we recommend a k24 framed turbo over a k16. You are never "waiting" for boost, its more of the idea of being able to apply maintenance throttle through the apex with out getting large spikes in torque.

This is not an off the cuff answer, we have been driving these cars on track since they were new!

 

^absolutely 100%, throttle control is what its all about.
if you are 'nailing the throttle' coming out of corners you either aren't pulling nearly enough mid-corner speed or the apex was something that happened 5seconds ago, lol.

 

At 4500 rpm there isn't much hesitation even for bigger turbos. I'm wondering how much difference is there really. Modulation will be present regardless if you are driving properly. If you are beginning to squeeze throttle before or at apex, even big turbos are ready well before track out. All other available traction is already being used be lateral grip. Driving a turbo car is about timing.

Because of the torque you can get away with higher gears in some turns than other cars. This helps reduce shifts and prevents too much useless torque multiplication. This is where I think the smaller turbos might help. And the sprint from 50-60 mph to 165-170 on the back straight at Road Atlanta or VIR. Im wondering which is better over the course of a lap.