996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Looking for tips on a clutch job 996 turbo

Old Jun 15, 2015 | 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmV8
Even if you lost that I couldn't make you buy me a coffee after all the help you gave me
But I will report back my impressions once the car's running. I think the bulk of parts arrive tomorrow according to the tracking numbers.
I'm a gas station coffee drinker anyway and don't remove the tubular brace like i said to do. leave it in the car bolt the trans brace back onto the trans and install it that way. 2 16mm nuts is all you need when the trans is installed
 
Old Jun 21, 2015 | 10:24 PM
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Bit of progress a few days ago. Assembled my throw out bearing.







Mocked up my GT2 slave




Paint pen dots. Center punch then drill and tap.




New studs turned in and ready to go.




You can also see I drilled out a larger center hole so the rod has some side to side abilities if needed. I used this hole type saw I had laying around handy.




The hole came through perfectly in reference to material thickness and where it should be.




After mocking up the new GT2 clutch fork (mirror image of the stock one) I saw it was catching on the bell housing area there a little. I took an air die grinder and cleared out a little material to fix that.




Stock throw out bearing sleeve on the left (or guide tube I've noticed Porsche calls it), GT longer version on the right.




New longer one installed




1 3/8" hole plug I found at my local Lowes. Closed off stock hole perfectly




Quite a massive differences in slave cylinders. Stock massive unit up front. GT2 down below. Could even be considered a weight reduction mod lol.




Stock DMFW on left and GT3 LWFW on right.




The weight difference felt huge so I weighed them. 20.2 lbs for the stock unit and 11 lbs for the LWFW. Not as big a difference as I was expecting just from picking them up but still pretty impressive.




Separate ring gear used on the GT3 setup. Pretty cool because that means you can remove it and turn this flywheel in the future unlike the stock unit.




See the difference in the stacks. Stock unit on left, new assembly on the right.




I have no idea if Porsche uses anything different than other brands so I picked up their recommended spline grease. I already have tubes of the stuff from Fords but knowing my luck it'll be something special for some unknown reason so I just got the Sachs stuff.




Then comes the living nightmare.....




Getting the rod in the side of that clutch fork after you re-install the transmission. Now in all fairness you guys warmed me it would suck. Boy did that suck to figure out.
So I taped it the way you see initially and then a bunch of other ways. Long story short is you can either tape that fork the correct height or the correct forward/back position but not both. It has to be away from the clutch and up a little. Basically hovering in midair in an impossible position.

I would struggle from the side with the bore scope trying to wiggle it with a screw driver. I'd get it lined up but then as soon as I pulled out the screw driver it would drop. I tried different combinations of electrical tape and painters tape. The idea been painters tape stretches as needed or the painters tape will snap and let go if needed. Transmission went in and out 7 times in this frustrating process. Yes you read that right 7 times. At that point I was running out of ideas so I called up a buddy and told him I think I need help.

So the two of us looked it over and came up with the idea of lifting the clutch fork from the starter motor hole instead of the driver's side or the hole up above there. So we got some wire and bent up a hook he could use while we watched with the bore scope. So that was #8 installation of the transmission. We struggled for ever and finally realized that was not working and gave up and pulled it for a different idea. We just couldn't get the wire to move the fork how we wanted.

#9 went in with our original tape setup from #1 and we took a new approach. I adjusted the fork from the driver's side with the screw driver as I had originally as I can get it in place in less than a minute. Then coming in from the passenger's side my buddy managed to get his fingers in somewhere and pinch the fork in place allowing me to pull out the screw driver and slide in the pivot fork. It would only go through the first hole but that was a major accomplishment. Then using the bore scope I could watch the second bushing and pivot fork right there while he managed to get his fingers in a hole over there and wiggle it up till the fork slid all the way in. SUCCESS.... shortly lived anyways lol.
I was so tired and frustrated at that point I took a socket extension to push in the bearing on the end of the pivot fork and it slipped out my hand boom I had a 6" socket extension laying inside the bell housing LOL. Oh my gosh I couldn't believe it.

However we had a process now. So for pulling the transmission for #10 and putting it back we knocked it out pretty fast.

That's quite literally where I stopped and haven't made it back to the garage.

Shouldn't be but another day in the garage and it should be done. I hope, dying to drive this car again.
 
Old Jun 22, 2015 | 02:29 AM
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you doing all the right things. if you wrap electrical tape down and under the c/f then when the trans is fractionally away from the engine you can lift the tape and ever so slightly raise the fork to line up the holes. btw this process takes about 10 minutes when the trans and engine are out and on a stand! now drill a 6mm hole in the black plug and assemble the plug and locking tab and bolt as 1 unit. use a rubber oring on the backside of the bolt to hold it in place and thread the 6mm bolt into the plug a few threads. now you can push it into place and use a 10mm socket to thread the bolt. this keeps anything from falling into the bell housing. keep a flexible magnet handy as well
 
Old Jun 22, 2015 | 03:22 AM
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great pics great to see the stock vs the other parts side by side and the step by steps are great. makes me feel a fool for not having done all upgraded sh8t too.
clutch fork *only* took three attempts here

carry on you're almost there!
 
Old Jun 22, 2015 | 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 32krazy!
you doing all the right things. if you wrap electrical tape down and under the c/f then when the trans is fractionally away from the engine you can lift the tape and ever so slightly raise the fork to line up the holes. btw this process takes about 10 minutes when the trans and engine are out and on a stand! now drill a 6mm hole in the black plug and assemble the plug and locking tab and bolt as 1 unit. use a rubber oring on the backside of the bolt to hold it in place and thread the 6mm bolt into the plug a few threads. now you can push it into place and use a 10mm socket to thread the bolt. this keeps anything from falling into the bell housing. keep a flexible magnet handy as well
Yeah I'll be looking into dropping the entire engine and transmission next time. Sounds so much easier to do just about anything on the car.

I forgot to put in the previous post the black plastic plug, retaining bracket and bolt are in already too. I did those right away as I was afraid the pivot fork bearing would fall out or something like that. I slipped the black plastic plug in with my finger tips holding it securely. The bolt I taped to my socket with some painters tape to avoid a mishap and the bracket I slid up with a small dab of grease so it stuck to the bolt and then just slid the assembly up there and threaded the bolt and snugged right away.

BTW I'm not sure how you do the electrical tape trick sticking out and then pull to line up. That was one method I tried a few times but couldn't get it to work.

Originally Posted by '02996ttx50
great pics great to see the stock vs the other parts side by side and the step by steps are great. makes me feel a fool for not having done all upgraded sh8t too.
clutch fork *only* took three attempts here

carry on you're almost there!
Three attempts vs ten is much better It is pretty interesting to see how the different parts compare.
 
Old Jun 22, 2015 | 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmV8
BTW I'm not sure how you do the electrical tape trick sticking out and then pull to line up. That was one method I tried a few times but couldn't get it to work.
its tricky but can be done. what i ended up doing which works slicker than snot is i had a tool and die shop use a diamond bit and drilled a 4mm hole in the pocket of the clutch fork. use the tape to steady it then when the trans is slide in i used a threaded 4mm rod and stuck it thru the slave hole! this allowed me to lift the fork with 1 hand and slide the fork rod in with the other. be aware it took 2 bits to drill thru!! hardest metal i have ever seen!
 
Old Jun 22, 2015 | 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 32krazy!
its tricky but can be done. what i ended up doing which works slicker than snot is i had a tool and die shop use a diamond bit and drilled a 4mm hole in the pocket of the clutch fork. use the tape to steady it then when the trans is slide in i used a threaded 4mm rod and stuck it thru the slave hole! this allowed me to lift the fork with 1 hand and slide the fork rod in with the other. be aware it took 2 bits to drill thru!! hardest metal i have ever seen!
That's a pretty good idea. If I do this again I will definitely consider something like this or similar or some sort of tool for the job now that I know what's involved and what has to be done.
 
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 10:01 AM
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Some updates from a couple days ago. So as you can see I couldn't hardly get the door open with the car on a lift so I decided to remove the seat for access to under the dash.




It's just 4 bolts and super easy. You will need to hook the battery up to slide the seat either forward or backwards. Only two of the four bolts are ever exposed at any one time so you have to move it. One tip I read online says never connect the battery while the seat's electrical harness is unplugged or else it triggers an airbag light that can only be turned off at the Porsche dealer. Good to know.




Laid down an old comforter of my kids I keep for such jobs and I was in business. I highly recommend this to anyone working under the dash. Its unusually cramped and tiny under this dash been a small car in general.




Got the master cylinder swapped out. Asides from the green color I could see no difference. I do wonder if I swapped out one part for an identical part. Anyways done. Stock is the top one with green.




Springs I could see a difference. Stock on the right, GT2 on the left.




I never read this anywhere but luckily I noticed it on the new spring. There's a cotter pin you can slide in the back through that rod to hold it in the collapsed position. Make sure you do this on the old one before attempting to remove or I imagine you'll have a heck of a time and possibly even pinch a finger real good as that thing comes apart.




Old clutch reservoir cap setup on the right and new DOT 4 cap on the left. Nice touch I thought.




I flushed 4 reservoirs full of fluid through the system to get the old Pentosin out. 2 more reservoirs full bleeding the system once the slave was hooked up.

The hydraulic clutch setup pretty much done.




Seems my car has an aftermarket air filter. I saw another 996 turbo at a local car show and it had the rear lid popped up and it was a paper air filter. So I cleaned and re-oiled it.




Also installed a new fuel filter while I was at it. Drained the transmission oil, installed that redline oil. Got the new front tires installed. Everything seemed in good shape.

Got the car out and took it for a spin.



















Driving Impressions:

The new hydraulic setup. First thing I noticed is the clutch engages right off the floor. That's kinda crappy but livable. It slows down fast shifts when racing people as your window of shift is so tiny and only when the clutch is flat to the floor good and hard.
The pedal is stiffer of course as expected but it's not horrible by any means. It's how a clutch should feel in my opinion. Not to heavy, not to light. The actual feel of the clutch is 100 times better. It no longer has that dead disconnected feel. You can feel it engaging and its really nice to drive in that sense. It also engages consistently now in the exact same spot. I no longer fear killing the motor on pull off because it might randomly engage sooner.

From all the threads I've read on this forum searching there is no fix at this time for adjusting engagement point and that's to bad. If it would engage a little higher off the floor this setup would be darn perfect.

The new clutch setup. Well the single mass light weight flywheel was a HUGE mistake. Very sorry I went that route. The car rattles at idle something terrible. I absolutely hate it. Its so loud inside and outside the car the radio doesn't even drown out the sound. Not that I use the radio but I tried it just to see. Sitting at a red light I have people next to me looking over at the noise. One guy asked me what's wrong with my car
It physically drives fine and the clutch engages nice and smooth and doesn't slip anymore which is a huge bonus. Unfortunately I just have to many other things going on right now to redo this clutch or I'd have a DMFW on order immediately. I guess winter project when things slow down.
Oh and I might add I notice no difference what so ever in responsiveness to the engine from the flywheel change so it seems like a complete waste having that rattle. Maybe the car was down to long and I just forgot how it drove but it sure seems the same to me.

I made a quick cell phone video of the rattle noise. I'm not sure what happened with the audio but the noise is actually louder inside the car than it is outside. In the video it appears to go quieter in the car for some reason but that's not true.

 
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 10:17 AM
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congrats! well done!, btw my car also chatters but i think not as loud as yours while idling - if i just turn the music on, a little, i dont hear anything,

btw when people ask you whats wrong with your car, just tell em' because its a race car. lol

btw I would probably buy new air filter, go with BMC filter, you can scoop one from ebay, cheaper than any other places, several months passed and no issue with idle on my car, some people say they have idle issues, some dont with aftermarket filters.

filter you have, looks like K&N and i hate them (from my personal experience) because MAF sensor gets oily/dirty. well,

again, nice job!
 

Last edited by MadWhip; Jun 25, 2015 at 10:29 AM.
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MadWhip
congrats! well done!, btw my car is also loud but i think not as loud as yours while idling - if i just turn the music on, a little, i dont hear anything, and also depends on the temperature outside, I believe in cold weather it chatters less, I can live with that, some people can't.

btw when people ask you whats wrong with your car, just tell em' because its a race car. lol

btw I would probably buy new air filter, go with BMC filter, you can scoop one from ebay, cheaper than any other places, several months passed and no issue with idle)

filter you have, looks like K&N and i hate them (from my personal experience) because MAF sensor gets oily/dirty. well,

again, nice job!
It is hot here right now. I think yesterday was around 90F and muggy out. But our summers are constantly hot so it's something I'll have to deal with for a while. Yes race car indeed

I agree with the K&N oiling issue. I've had it on my Mustangs in the past with the same problem contaminating the MAF sensor. I oil them lightly and let the filter sit out a couple days to try and reduce the problem. I'll look for the BMC. I like the dry filters myself too because of the MAF issue.
 
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 10:51 AM
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Something is not right. That is waaaaay loud in the video. What clutch disc are you using? With the 764PP and GT3 4.0 disc and 964RS LWFW my car makes barely any additional noise, only when in neutral with the clutch released and when the gearbox temp is very hot and then it's barely audible only with the windows up and radio off. My clutch also engages perfectly in the middle. I run Porsche fill Delvac 75w90, try that over the redline to see if that makes a difference.
 

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Old Jun 25, 2015 | 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmV8
It is hot here right now. I think yesterday was around 90F and muggy out. But our summers are constantly hot so it's something I'll have to deal with for a while. Yes race car indeed

I agree with the K&N oiling issue. I've had it on my Mustangs in the past with the same problem contaminating the MAF sensor. I oil them lightly and let the filter sit out a couple days to try and reduce the problem. I'll look for the BMC. I like the dry filters myself too because of the MAF issue.
yeah i used to run KNN on my 96 Cobra. until i changed to dry filter.
 
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 11:34 AM
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Hmmm...is it possible that your single mass flywheel is not an actual Porsche part and that it is an aftermarket Atsco or something?
 
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmV8
I'll look for the BMC. I like the dry filters myself too because of the MAF issue.
I have a virtually new BMC filter if you're looking for one. I only used it very briefly. It has not been oiled. $75 shipped. I think they run around $180 new.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/o12iep]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/nFKuWs]
 
Old Jun 25, 2015 | 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pwdrhound
Something is not right. That is waaaaay loud in the video. What clutch disc are you using? With the 764PP and GT3 4.0 disc and 964RS LWFW my car makes barely any additional noise, only when in neutral with the clutch released and when the gearbox temp is very hot and then it's barely audible only with the windows up and radio off. My clutch also engages perfectly in the middle. I run Porsche fill Delvac 75w90, try that over the redline to see if that makes a difference.
OK that is a huge difference and how you describe the noise is what I was hoping for. I wonder if the transmission oil makes all that difference? I have the RedLine 75w90 that's recommended on Pelican Parts website.

I'm pretty sure I got all the right parts.
This is the exact clutch disk I used.
997-116-013-91-M38

This single mass flywheel
964-102-239-31-M894

With this ring gear
964-114-143-31-M260

All three of those were purchased at pelicanparts.com if you want to look at their descriptions etc.

The pressure plate I had gotten in a "kit" from AWE who refused to take parts back so I used it. All he would tell me as far as part number is 764. I "assume" that's 88-3082-999-764. He would not elaborate further.

I will definitely give the Delvac a try. If that makes it as quite as you describe I'd be so tickled and happy lol.

Interesting your clutch engages perfectly in the middle. I'm not sure what the differences are there between yours and mine.
 

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