So I'm completely new to the 911 but not cars. My car needs a clutch. The guy I purchased the car from said it's around 650 hp at engine. I assume the stock clutch can take that and mine is just worn.

So looking at Pelican Parts I see a Sachs (OEM Porsche) clutch kit for $1175. Is there anything else I need or should order ahead of time so the car doesn't sit for to long? It's not a daily but I hate it been down.

My plan is to get it up on four 6 ton jack stands and pull the transmission. I read up a few howtos and it seems fairly straight forward. Although none of them covered AWD cars or turbo cars but I can't imagine it's to much more difficult. The AWD case is built into the transmission or it's a separate box? Guess I'll find out soon enough.

The dual mass flywheel is a new one on me. I come from the Mustang Cobra world, no such thing there lol. Anyhow I assume I can get these resurfaced and put back in just like any other flywheel?

I also saw there's some special torx sockets I need for a few bolts that connect to the engine to the transmission. They have those on Pelican parts so I'll grab those too.

Thanks for any tips or tricks from guys who've tackled this and can give me a heads up on what all to expect.

Thanks
Malcolm

 

I'm sure you will find that your mustang cobra also has a dual mass flywheel...a single mass flywheel allows faster revs but also has a lot of tranny gear rattle when in neutral, which is why manufacturers went to a dual mass system...Porsche 911 trannys are a transaxle arrangement so the job might be a little bigger than you think....I would recommend a stronger clutch than stock for that much horsepower, especially with awd...

 

Welcome! The clutch change is not anything like a Cobras or anything American for that matter. I speak from experience! I have a Sachs 764 model clutch made for racing. Supposedly holds 600ish plus Hp.
The hydraulics are also something you need to consider. Slave cylinder and accumulator. You can switch to a GT2 conversion also that omits those.
The install is very difficult without dropping engine as the pivot shaft for the fork is "blindly" seated by hand. If you screw that up you have to remove trans and try again!

 

in order to keep from going insane purchase the following.

8mm x60mm long bolt
harbor freight bore scope
hose pliers
large supply of alcohol

this can be done with the engine still in the car buts a real pain in the a**. get ready to be frustrated and bleed at the knuckles. lining up the clutch fork can make you go blind and mad at the same time. or it slips into place the first time.
28 needle bearings in the clutch rod on each end. remember this # because if you lose one the entire thing has to be taken out and start over.

call sam at bt design and get the upgraded clutch. oem unit will just wear out

this is a perfect time to also do the gt2 clutch conversion. not cheap but worth every penny. search for info on a diy by 02turbo996

 

How many miles does your motor have?

I have ~650 hp and the stock clutch was not holding at 32k miles. You'll want a Sachs 2.5 clutch kit. That is the the SRE '999 764' pressure plate with a 996 GT2 disc. That combo has been time tested, 95% similar feel to the stock clutch, and good to 700+ tq. With zero ill manners to talk about. Stock clutch had plenty of meat when I swapped it so it's just marginal at handling over 600hp.

Brace yourself and do lots of reading on the clutch job. FR driveline layouts are cake compared this this transaxle setup that is nested deep in the unibody. I can do a traditional FR clutch job in ~4 hrs. This one, albiet first time, took me 15 hrs on jack stands taking my time and thoroughly understanding each step so I wouldn't have to do things over for pitfalls like the needle bearing or fork alignment.

These threads have all the info you'll need:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ch-change.html
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...h-install.html

 

The car has 104k miles on it now. I picked it up at 102k. The prior owner gave me a maintenance list of things that were changed and fixed from oil leaks to radiator hoses and belts. No where did it say a clutch so I believe it may be on the original clutch but that seems like a stretch with the miles.
He also said 650 hp but I have to admit I'm skeptical. My Cobra dyno'd 705 hp at the wheels and my BMW makes around 475 at the motor so I'm fairly familiar with what higher HP feels like.
I listed the mods from the prior owner in my sig. Maybe a more experienced person could tell right away there's no way that's 650 or maybe that's about right. Don't get me wrong the car is fairly quick but nothing like I was expecting.

Anyhow the clutch in there now is silky smooth and drives amazing. I would assume that to be stock. I'd like to keep it that way if possible. My only concern is perhaps its not worn but just been over powered by the car. In that case the Sach's 2.5 clutch kit sounds very intriguing. Drives almost like stock but holds 700+ ft/lbs. Sign me up lol.

Sounds like the clutch job will be interesting to say the least. I'm up for a challenge I'm going to read those two DIY links you gave me now.

BTW what is the preferred place you guys get parts from? I was just using Pelican Parts because I found them on google but I'm open to options. I didn't see the Sachs 2.5 clutch on there, or missed it.

 

Had my 03 Turbo's tranny out at around 120K miles for a RMS repair. Original clutch had no measurable wear. Car now has 133K miles and clutch is fine.

My 2002 Boxster has 290K miles on its original clutch.

Given the right treatment there's no reason a clutch can't last.

The stock clutch is good for about up to a 10% jump in torque/HP. There are exceptions. It depends upon how one drives the car. If one never uses the extra HP or limits his use to high speed roll on races with no speed shifting the stock clutch might last a long time.

OTOH, if the owner has to win every stop light gran prix...

If you are running 650hp you need to research high performance clutches and install the right clutch for the amount of HP the engine is making.

 

That DIY thread rocks BTW - still have to watch all the linked videos but just reading the detail has been very helpful.

I found the Sachs 2.5 as well. Looks like it's $1635 without flywheel. An extra $860 with the flywheel which they say is 12 lbs lighter and more responsive but I assume that means its not the dual mass and doesn't dampen vibration as much and isn't as smooth but how much and does it really matter? I don't know.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/sachs-porsche-stages2-5and3

 

I would fall into option 2. I just got my R888s on there and was testing 1st gear launch when I realized this clutch won't do. 2nd gear roll it actually holds fine with about a 3k RPM hit to WOT.
However 1st gear even from a 20 roll or so you nail it WOT and it just wraps to redline but you're not going anywhere, let off real fast and you can smell burning clutch. Needless to say I only did that once. I don't want to tear the car up.
I enjoy the power and want to be able to jump on it hence looking at this Sachs 2.5 option.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Did you launch your car with your 18g using the stock clutch?

 

ERP3x with steel flywheel?


This would put it behind you, after the installation of course.



https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...on-clutch.html

 

Malcolm, I paid extra $1100 for labor to change my clutch, it was worth every dollar at local Indy shop, trans is super heavy-to do this job from garage floor, good luck and keep us posted, do not go with stock oem clutch and also I would suggest doing GT2 conversion.

 

I didn't get as far as a launch. 20 mph roll or so and punched it and it just wrapped to redline like it was in neutral. Stock clutch has 104k miles though.

Thanks for the link but I would never put a used clutch in any of my cars. Just to much work and money involved for a possible dicy situation.

I work on cars on the side. I have transmission jacks and lots of other tools most guys probably don't have. I really don't think it'll be that bad. If need be I could even get a current project car off the 2 post lift and get this one on there for the weekend instead of jack standing it.

BTW why do you recommend the GT2 conversion? I did some reading on it on this forum and there's a lot of mixed reviews. In summary of what I found searching many complain it makes the clutch pedal about twice to three times as stiff. Some seem to enjoy the stiffer pedal and liked it. On the flip side many complained about it and said they much preferred the stock pedal.
I also saw people complaining that the stock pedal didn't "modulate" consistently and the GT2 setup was more consistent on where the clutch engaged. Others responded and said replace the slave cylinder and it your stock will be as consistent as can be. I've only had some 2k seat time in my car so far but best I can tell the clutch is very consistent. You can especially tell pulling off up hill where you must be just right to RPM match and not kill the car or lurch forward etc. It's butter smooth each time and consistent.

From the research and reading I've done I'd like to stick with more OEM type setup. I've had my share of insanely stiff clutches to mildly stiff to nice and soft on my Cobra and other cars over the years. Hands down I prefer a softer clutch pedal.

This is what they call the Sachs 2.5 kit? or are you referring to their 3.0 kit which I believe they list as racing and track only cars. What do you mean you speak from experience? any more info to offer?

 

I called AWE this morning and chatted with them about the Sachs 2.5 clutch kit. It sounds like a winner. They assure me it drives like stock, is as smooth and same pedal effort. That's awesome.

The part I can't decide on is the flywheel. He said it's much lighter (12 lbs) and is single mass and not a dual mass so when the car is idling in neutral with the clutch released he said it sounds like there's marbles bouncing around in the transmission because there's no dampening of vibration. I have to decide if I can live with that or not. Anyone selected this lightweight flywheel and have some feed back? I'm leaning towards not doing this but I need more info.

Thanks

 

So many ways to skin a cat!! Here is my perspective since I just did my clutch a couple months ago.

Make sure whatever kit you buy, you know the part numbers in the kit. XYZ company v ABC company may both sell a "2.5" kit but have totally different parts. I almost went with the 764 PP and the 1098 rigid disc. (You have to pair the actual disc with the flywheel)

Dual mass you can do spring hub disc or get away with a rigid hub disc (which normally carry and higher trq rating) but a single mass flywheel with a rigid hub disc everyone hates.

I opted to keep the DMD flywheel because I could get a clutch with a little higher trq rating than what I could with the LWFW (and some complain of noise)

I also got a smoking deal on a new flywheel so that helped with the decision

I am SO SO SO SO SO SO, did I say SO glad I did the gt2 slave conversion while the trans was out. The clutch I had in there previously was really on/off and very difficult to drive. I pretty much have the same clutch now that I did before, but it's WAY easier to drive since I did the GT2 conv.

I think for me, that's part of the reason I love it so much. I don't find it terribly stuff either, BUT I had no pedal spring before. So there were a couple different variables that led to me loving it so much.

If you can, find a gt2 or gt3 and push the clutch pedal...thats what it will feel like. And I never have to worry about the failure prone turbo parts again. Bascially for the cost on one slave and accumulator replacement, you "fix" the design.

I also drilled off the shifter weights and installed new turbo inlets while the trans was out.

Good luck!