I've always wanted to go to C&C, I'll let you know if that makes a difference or not when I do! So far I've yet to hear of anyone overwhelming Sean's stuff, I also don't know of anyone doing good instrumentation on them either. I've seen over 90 degree drops intake to exhaust on mine so I'm happy. I'll have to ask Garth if they ever got warm on the dyno although I know the IAT cal is whacked so anything from the IAT logs is suspect till that's fixed. I'd love to hear how they handle more sustained load.

I'd be interested in hearing real world tests of these too, the weight sounds reasonable to me though perhaps not others. Mile racing or road course with small turbo would be a good test. Something other than the factory IAT would be sweet. That's a pretty thick core so it should absorb a ton, if it can pass enough airflow through to shed it that's a winner.

 

LOL. Touche!

No kidding. It's almost comical. Wagner ist to intercoolers what RWB is to fender flares...

 

^ What do you run Steve?

 

I just want the carbon lower.

 

Nothing yet, as my car is not yet up and running. I have quite a large stockpile of parts, but I've not yet purchased ICs. I was quite sure that I'd be running GT2RS ICs - unless I won the lottery in which case I'd be pestering John (Pwdrhound) for a set of his aerospace-core ICs. Aside from an exhaust, I haven't purchased motor parts yet. That will be phase 2. You are on my short list of people to call, Sam. Hopefully in about 8-12 months.

I've just recently heard nice things about the smaller Wagner ICs. But I'm working to make my car as light as possible and 15lbs/side is nothing to sneeze at - especially all the way out back in both rear corners. The performance gain would need to be phenomenal.

Wouldn't it be great to get some objective tests done on aftermarket ICs? Seems to me like you could be a great facilitator for something like this, Sam...

 

I hear you Steve cheers. Sounds like a long-term project. I would be glad to help you with anything I can.

Without it coming out wrong, you won't find a proper IC test it's just too complicated. Especially from a guy like myself who works with most of the providers out there. I realize there is something for everyone and there are several different lists of requirements for different needs you know. Lots of pros and cons with everything. There have been a few good attempts to compare but it's just too expensive and hard to be solid. I have seen logs and tuned or helped tune cars with just about all of them over 20 years. I have also had the pleasure of working with and learning from some of the most experienced and highest success tuners/manufacturers out there. So I feel I have a good knowledge and experience level to tap and gauge when my client comes to me with a list of requirements. Most importantly non-biased and it has always been that way with me. Even on a few items that I was behind myself I would not push it if it's not the right fit and I stand behind everything I say and ship out. I am glad we have so many great options!

That's the best I can do and I do it with pleasure

 

Didn't realize that was including the top duct too, that's pretty nice so long as it seals really well. End looks a little flatter than I'd expect for such a thick core but that could be the angle.

Testing multiple vendors would need a thin wire thermal probe and I'd want to see inlet and outlet temps. Back to back would be tough, I guess it would be quicker if you had spare cages to mount them and left the bumper off. Perhaps two different coolers and sets of probes to do two different manufacturers? A pita to coordinate and no doubt the losers would be butt hurt over it.... Stressing some of these would probably be pretty tough too, airstrip or road course and some small turbo!

 

The problem with testing ICs is that you simply can't get good test with just 1, 2, or 3 pulls to redline. Looking at Motec logs, even with the 7.2RS ICs, I don't get to a stable fully saturated IAT until the 4th or 5th lap depending on OAT. That's 8-10 minutes of all out running with consecutive shifts at redline. Pretty much all graphs you see out there area those of a single pull which is a very poor overall representation of how the IC will perform once fully heat soaked.. it may be an accurate representation of how the IC will perform stoplight to stoplight or at the drag strip but beyond that it's anyone's guess. One can generally get a good idea of what the IC will be good at by taking a good look at the density of the core. That's why it would be nice if each manufacturer would show a detailed picture of the overall core structure.

 

Agreed - though I still think it is possible to show trends quite quickly. We here in Europe/Germany (it is 15 min from my house in the Alsace to a very nice stretch of Autobahn) have the possibility of pulling up to 300+kph and longer high speed runs (all this traffic permitting, of course. This usually means getting up very early on a Sunday...). I would, no I will be really curious to see how the GT2RS ICs do on a sustained high speed run. And I would be very curious to see how some of the aftermarket ICs such as SRM or Markski etc compare.

Obviously there are numerous variables that play into IC performance and evaluation: the ability to absorb heat or to shed heat vs. just acting as a heat sink till loaded is a primary criteria, but flow and weight are nearly as important. And it seems to me that many IC manufacturers are excessively secretive about what they have. Agree completely with Pwdrhound, just showing pics of the core and being open about things like weight would be a great start.

 

My log, at A1 northbound when leaving the 'Ring. 997 GT2 RS's ICs, OAT about 15C. See how IAT stabilizes with increasing speed.

 

You guys are lucky. Yes, sustained autobahn runs would be a great way to test ICs. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury here on this side of the pond.

A couple of pictures of like this of the various intecooler cores showing the # of cooling and flow channels along with core density would go a long way to telling a story... Can someone post a couple of pics like this of the Wagner cores??

997.2 CORES

[url=https://flic.kr/p/PD3Sba]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/PAtLt7]



AEROSPACE CORES (the fin density here is pretty ridiculous) The fin thickness is very fine resulting in a tremendous amount of surface area which leads to high efficiency while keeping the core just barely heavier than the 997.2 cores.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/HtXKUD]

 

One thing is sure - it doesn't take but a run or two on good boost at a drag strip to overheat the stock cores. Upgrades are needed for sure, it's nice to have choices! I'd add, pics of the end tanks are also important. Some of the tanks I've seen have ends flattened such that you have to wonder how they flow at all!

 

Ahhh intercooler threads!

 

I have said it before. Never seen a car community so passionate about intercoolering theory lol

 

[QUOTE=pwdrhound;4589199]You guys are lucky. Yes, sustained autobahn runs would be a great way to test ICs. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury here on this side of the pond.

The only thing you can see at long sustained autobahn runs is that the temperatur at high speed goes down.....


with 4.5 or 5.7 IC you have a constant IAT and better flow (better flow helps at cold and hot temp condition)