I'm looking at adding an Aquamist HFS3 setup to my car. I run 100octane all the time and and EPL tune that was written for my car (other mods in signature). If I add a meth kit will I need yet another tune file to take advantage of any HP gains it will provide (running 50/50 Methanol/H20)? I am very happy with my tune but I do not enjoy the process it requires to change my tuning file.
I'm considering switching to a Cobb setup if I do need another tune. The idea of having my ECU maps in the car and not stuck in the cloud is very encouraging - but not if I can stick with my current 100octane file. It's a matter of not spending the time and money on another tuning solution if I can avoid it.
Before pulling the trigger on the HFS3 I'd appreciate any feedback from the forum so I can make a more informed decision.

 

Get rid of the EPL tune, my car had a base epl tune for billet k16 and my tuner pointed out they pretty much blindly increase timing and boost. At the very least explore taking logs and send them out for a second opinion.

With as expensive as these engines are I would never run water meth without multiple failsafes in place to limit boost and cut timing if w/m supply runs out.
Good luck
Shawn

 

The EPL tune has been reliable and trouble free - its the method of changing the file when I need to run 91 octane, or now possibly a third tune that I have been frustrated with. The HFS 3 has built in failsafes that are automated and do not require user intervention if flow is a problem. I'm looking specifically for an answer to whether or not I need a separate tune file for methanol injection to take advantage of the power gains - or will it just provide lower IAT's if I run my current tune. If it needs separate tunes then I will have 4 files to deal with (91, 100, 91+meth, 100+meth) and that is an expensive pain in the a$$ with EPL unfortunately. For the price of a retune I could buy the Cobb and some custom maps that I keep with me in the car (if I understand how the AccessPort handles swapping ECU maps).

 

to get the real added power it'll need retuning, but some small gains could be apparent using the current do to IAT drop.
(very happy/correct EPL tuned car here too)

 

I reached out to a reputable tuner that posts on this forum often and he discouraged the use of meth injection for a power increase with Alpha 28s because they cause a "big spike into work" which I took to mean that the sudden torque generated by a tune that relies on methanol is risky to the rods. It's been discussed here many times that 6-700hp can be had reliably with the stock bottom end but not if the torque isn't delivered smoothly. Alpha 28's need to be tuned carefully for this reason as it is so what he said made sense.
Still, I don't see any risk to adding a 50/50 spray for safety and consistency on hot summer days so I am going to add it without trying to squeeze more power out of my car. I want reliable power and longevity not bragging rights.
It's already got 600rwhp on my current 100 octane tune which isn't as impressive as it was 5 years ago but it's plenty for me!

 

Please keep us posted. I'm also interested in adding an HFS-3 for similar reasons and have been wondering if it would require a retune (vs. an optional retune to fully take advantage of the meth). Coincidently, I also have a similar setup as you (EPL tune, 72lbs injectors, GT2RS IC's, billet K16s).

 

The problem I had with changing tunes is that EPL is no longer focusing on our cars and I wanted to move to Cobb if I changed. None of the Cobb tuners will work on the Bosch 72lb setup provided by EPL apparently. The one I contacted said they were problematic but I haven't had a bad experience.
Anyway, I couldn't justify spending close to $1500 for injectors, and another 2K for an Accessport and custom tuning all to squeeze a bit more power out of my engine when the HFS3 is only about $800 with a 5L tank. I still like the idea of keeping the intake temps down so meth is a no brainer. I never thought I would say this but it is powerful enough for me.
I guess I'm getting old.

 

Interesting. I haven't reached out to EPL yet to look into my options. Are they no longer supporting the 996tt, meaning you can't get a retune? Or is it just more expensive to get a retune now?

I've also had no issues with the 72lbs injectors (I've had them for about 8 years now) so I wouldn't be too keen on spending the money to swap either. Have you found any other tuning options that will let you keep the injectors? Markski maybe?

 

Tony's exact words "Not much 996 stuff anymore. No new development in the Porsche world anytime soon, but reach out if you need us!" I looked on their facebook page and it's 100% Audi now. Eventually I will have to find a tuner / solution that isn't cloud based but for now I'm not in a hurry to switch. The same 100octane tune has been rock solid for 3 years and even passed California smog repeatedly (after reinstalling my stock exhaust for a week every two years ).
Regarding other tuners, I'm really interested in the Cobb AP and I want to work with Sam when the time comes. I get the impression that other tuners do not want to rebuild their known tuning maps to accommodate an unknown injector. I just hate changing them. It's not a fun job.

 

Good info, thanks!

My tune has been great and EPL has treated me well over the years so I don't see a need to switch unless they no longer support the platform (which doesn't seem to be the case). If I do go the meth injection route, I'd probably do a remote tune and have EPL optimize, but not get too aggressive, for the meth. I only run 93oct and would run meth all the time, so I'd only have the need for 1 file. So the file switching issues you have are (fortunately) a non-issue for me. With that said, I'm interested to see your results of adding meth with no retune at all. It would allow me to do the meth addition in stages thus spreading the cost over a longer period of time (meaning less wife points required for the overall modification).

 

First, the bad:
I really didn't enjoy the physical installation because you have to tear apart so many areas to run the wiring from the trunk, engine compartment, interior, make custom tank mounts, run the hoses from the tank to pump to engine compartment, drill / tap the intake pipe for the jets, etc...

Now the good!
I have to say, they make a very well thought out kit and once you've got all the connectors and hardware in place splicing in the control box to the DME is idiot-proof. The instructions are extremely well written and focused on doing things safely, slowly, and preventing you from making many time consuming mistakes. They even included a custom diagram for the 996TT DME to make splicing the control box into the harness the easiest part of the job.
Anyway, after running through the priming and all the testing and pre-driving calibration steps I have to say it does exactly what I bought it for. The IAT's are stable regardless of the outside temp of if I've been driving under heavy load for long time periods. I run it with 100octane unleaded exclusively and now I feel a little safer if I have to run 93 in an emergency - especially with Torco's octane boost added to the fuel tank.
I am not sure why but they sent me 3 1.2 mm jets when I thought the were supposed to send a pair of 0.8, 0.9 and 1.0 jets. I obviously only used two of them but looking at their HP chart I am guessing they based this on 600whp and translated that to closer to 680 crank hp. Anyway, I ordered a pair of 1.0 jets because 1.2 seems like it is suited to 100% methanol which I am not going to run.
Does anyone vent their tank to the outside when running a 50/50 mixture? If so I was thinking of doing the same by splicing a vent tube from the tank to the battery's vent tube which is very close to the meth tank and would prevent me from having to drill another hole in the trunk. I don't see a safety issue with this since hydrogen gas is just as flammable as the methanol fumes and they wouldn't be under any pressure. Is there any reason not to do this?
It's so hard to keep the miles low on this car because I want to drive it all the time but keeping it to 1-2 times a week makes it a real treat every time.

 

Who cares about keeping the miles low? LOL sounds counter-intuitive to the work done. What were your IAT before and now after?

Curious cause with just good intercoolers alone my IAT are always great, even when living in South Florida.

 

Thanks for the update! How's it feel without tuning for the water/meth? Any noticeable power gains or loss? Also, which tune are you running it on, the 100oct tune?

 

I was in the process of moving across the country and finally settled so sorry about the delayed response. I arrived in August and the ambient temps here were in the mid 90's every day with extreme humidity. I keep the AIT gauge in "graph" mode so it shows the actual temp and a horizontal line that follows that number. Running it on the 100oct tune with no changes to any parameters on the ECU I am happy to report that the goal I had has been achieved. I wanted a system that would maintain consistent power levels after multiple high speed runs on hot days. My initial impressions in California have been confirmed in Florida. Power levels are consistent even in extreme heat, boost levels don't go down I (consistently 1.4-1.5 bar) and I don't feel timing being pulled back. The AIT graph will rise to about 120 deg. F when sitting at a light on a 95deg day and then if I drive normally and cruise at about 45mph they drop back to about 105.
The meth system works its magic when I press the gas pedal down hard enough to trigger it. I can look at the graph gauge and see that when the throttle is opened and the meth starts spraying there is an immediate drop in AIT back to the ambient temp and in come cases even a couple degrees below ambient!
In the past the weather made a huge difference in performance on hot days. When the car first warmed up it felt normal and had great power but after about 15 minutes of driving with a heavy foot I could feel a noticeable drop in power and the ECU was definitely doing it's job to protect the engine. I think the Mezger engine in our cars is tuned to pull timing at AIT levels of about 50-55 deg. celsius. That is no longer an issue and I feel like it is a great safety device since I am not using it to add power. I know it is capable of more if tuned for it but I never want to run the engine on the edge of its capabilities. Running 100octane (which it is tuned for) combined with 50/50 meth/h2o provides an extra margin of protection. It's a great setup and I recommend it to anyone who lives in a hot climate or looking for consistency on the track. Combined with the GT2RS Intercoolers AITs are no longer a problem.
On a related topic, the actual engine (coolant) temp gauge will rise slightly on very hot days but for the most part it never even approaches overheating even when driven hard with the AC on. Porsche really engineers their cars for the most challenging conditions and it shows. I have a 17 year old car that still looks and drives like it was new and has twice the RWHP it came with. There aren't many other cars built to take the punishment that a 911 turbo can handle if tuned properly.